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Join us in May with Andy Schwam on Rockin' The Code World with dotNetDave - a weekly show to learn & live Q&A on .NET and other programming technologies.
AGENDA
• Azure
• Being a software engineer in this era. *
• Blazor
• Career Development *
• Code Quality *
• Coding Standards *
• Diversity in software engineering *
• Speaking *
• The software development lifecycle
• Unit Tests
• What's happened to engineers being proud of their work. *
Bio
Andy Schwam is a Microsoft Developer Technologies MVP (since 2010) and ASP Insider. He is an experienced speaker, trainer, blogger, and conference organizer. As AVP Application Development, he is responsible for moving the IT department forward through the use of new technology, best practices, DevOps, and the Cloud. Additionally, Andy is a founding board member and organizer of TechBash, an annual conference for developers. He has been creating software applications since 1999.
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so
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so
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so
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so [Music]
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hey geeks um i wanted to
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hey geeks um i wanted to
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hey geeks um i wanted to sorry i'm getting all weepy-eyed already
2:07
sorry i'm getting all weepy-eyed already
2:07
sorry i'm getting all weepy-eyed already i want to start the show today with um
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i want to start the show today with um
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i want to start the show today with um you know some uh talk about the uh
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you know some uh talk about the uh
2:13
you know some uh talk about the uh current crisis in india
2:15
current crisis in india
2:15
current crisis in india you know india is dealing with the
2:16
you know india is dealing with the
2:16
you know india is dealing with the horrible outbreak of kohen
2:19
horrible outbreak of kohen
2:19
horrible outbreak of kohen and um and they really need our support
2:22
and um and they really need our support
2:22
and um and they really need our support you know not only financially but
2:25
you know not only financially but
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you know not only financially but you know countries sending materials and
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you know countries sending materials and
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you know countries sending materials and supplies and uh so
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supplies and uh so
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supplies and uh so you know i really hope all the software
2:31
you know i really hope all the software
2:31
you know i really hope all the software engineers out there
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engineers out there
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engineers out there um not in india um will help support
2:36
um not in india um will help support
2:36
um not in india um will help support um this cause and uh if you put the
2:39
um this cause and uh if you put the
2:39
um this cause and uh if you put the slide up uh simon
2:41
slide up uh simon
2:41
slide up uh simon so please go to this uh url and donate
2:45
so please go to this uh url and donate
2:45
so please go to this uh url and donate um it's it's being run by c-sharp corner
2:48
um it's it's being run by c-sharp corner
2:48
um it's it's being run by c-sharp corner and um and i really hope you donate you
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and um and i really hope you donate you
2:52
and um and i really hope you donate you know i was thinking about this morning
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know i was thinking about this morning
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know i was thinking about this morning and um you know if if everybody watching
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and um you know if if everybody watching
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and um you know if if everybody watching the show today
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the show today
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the show today gave five dollars like a cup of coffee
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gave five dollars like a cup of coffee
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gave five dollars like a cup of coffee in america
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in america
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in america five us dollars uh today then that would
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five us dollars uh today then that would
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five us dollars uh today then that would um raise twenty five thousand dollars
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um raise twenty five thousand dollars
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um raise twenty five thousand dollars for the aid relief and that's um almost
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for the aid relief and that's um almost
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for the aid relief and that's um almost two million rupees
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two million rupees
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two million rupees and two million rupees is a lot and
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and two million rupees is a lot and
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and two million rupees is a lot and uh so i really hope that you'll
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uh so i really hope that you'll
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uh so i really hope that you'll um think about you know our friends in
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um think about you know our friends in
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um think about you know our friends in india
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india
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india and uh i think that's why i'm getting
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and uh i think that's why i'm getting
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and uh i think that's why i'm getting teary-eyed is because
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teary-eyed is because
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teary-eyed is because you know i have friends in india who are
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you know i have friends in india who are
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you know i have friends in india who are losing loved ones right now
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losing loved ones right now
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losing loved ones right now because of this terrible pandemic
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because of this terrible pandemic
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because of this terrible pandemic [Music]
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[Music]
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[Music] and um and they really need your support
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and um and they really need your support
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and um and they really need your support so um sorry i thought i thought i could
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so um sorry i thought i thought i could
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so um sorry i thought i thought i could get through this
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get through this
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get through this um so i'm going to make a challenge for
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um so i'm going to make a challenge for
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um so i'm going to make a challenge for um
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um
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um all of my viewers i'm not in india and
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all of my viewers i'm not in india and
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all of my viewers i'm not in india and i'm talking to everybody in america
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i'm talking to everybody in america
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i'm talking to everybody in america the uk canada germany iceland
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the uk canada germany iceland
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the uk canada germany iceland netherlands
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netherlands
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netherlands all the other countries that can support
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all the other countries that can support
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all the other countries that can support this effort in india
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this effort in india
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this effort in india so um right after the show i'm going to
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so um right after the show i'm going to
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so um right after the show i'm going to donate a 100
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donate a 100
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donate a 100 uh to that link and i'm going to tweet
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uh to that link and i'm going to tweet
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uh to that link and i'm going to tweet about it
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about it
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about it and i challenge everybody in those
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and i challenge everybody in those
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and i challenge everybody in those countries and more countries
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countries and more countries
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countries and more countries to either match my donation or better
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to either match my donation or better
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to either match my donation or better and as software engineers i don't think
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and as software engineers i don't think
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and as software engineers i don't think that's a big ask
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that's a big ask
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that's a big ask a hundred dollars for software engineers
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a hundred dollars for software engineers
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a hundred dollars for software engineers in these countries is not a big ask
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in these countries is not a big ask
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in these countries is not a big ask so please donate they really need to
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so please donate they really need to
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so please donate they really need to support i don't want to lose any of my
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support i don't want to lose any of my
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support i don't want to lose any of my friends
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and i don't want them to lose
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and i don't want them to lose
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and i don't want them to lose their loved ones
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all right let's get the show going um
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all right let's get the show going um
4:47
all right let's get the show going um i'm really excited to have um andy
4:49
i'm really excited to have um andy
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i'm really excited to have um andy schwab on today
4:50
schwab on today
4:50
schwab on today he's a microsoft mvp so it's always
4:53
he's a microsoft mvp so it's always
4:53
he's a microsoft mvp so it's always great to talk to another fellow
4:55
great to talk to another fellow
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great to talk to another fellow mvp so i'm excited about this show this
4:57
mvp so i'm excited about this show this
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mvp so i'm excited about this show this is show number 23.
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is show number 23.
4:59
is show number 23. i'm glad you're all here and um
5:05
i think this is going to be a tough show
5:07
i think this is going to be a tough show
5:07
i think this is going to be a tough show um anyway
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um anyway
5:09
um anyway uh so let's get going because i want to
5:11
uh so let's get going because i want to
5:11
uh so let's get going because i want to leave as much time for andy
5:12
leave as much time for andy
5:12
leave as much time for andy uh because i know he's got a lot of
5:14
uh because i know he's got a lot of
5:14
uh because i know he's got a lot of great things uh to talk about today
5:16
great things uh to talk about today
5:16
great things uh to talk about today um and so i stopped talking and can
5:19
um and so i stopped talking and can
5:19
um and so i stopped talking and can compose myself
5:20
compose myself
5:20
compose myself uh so um uh version two of my sparging
5:23
uh so um uh version two of my sparging
5:23
uh so um uh version two of my sparging nougat packages are out um just today
5:27
nougat packages are out um just today
5:27
nougat packages are out um just today i updated a new version of my.net
5:31
i updated a new version of my.net
5:31
i updated a new version of my.net core assemblies today so um
5:34
core assemblies today so um
5:34
core assemblies today so um both of those combined i have almost 30
5:37
both of those combined i have almost 30
5:37
both of those combined i have almost 30 000 downloads at this point so i hope
5:38
000 downloads at this point so i hope
5:38
000 downloads at this point so i hope you go check out those uh
5:40
you go check out those uh
5:40
you go check out those uh uh my open source project and uh
5:43
uh my open source project and uh
5:43
uh my open source project and uh hopefully it will be
5:44
hopefully it will be
5:44
hopefully it will be of use for you just like it is used for
5:47
of use for you just like it is used for
5:47
of use for you just like it is used for me in every single project that i write
5:49
me in every single project that i write
5:49
me in every single project that i write even at work
5:50
even at work
5:50
even at work so um i i appreciate you uh taking a
5:53
so um i i appreciate you uh taking a
5:53
so um i i appreciate you uh taking a look at it there'll be an article coming
5:54
look at it there'll be an article coming
5:54
look at it there'll be an article coming out
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out
5:55
out uh any minute now from c sharp corner
5:57
uh any minute now from c sharp corner
5:57
uh any minute now from c sharp corner about all the new stuff
5:58
about all the new stuff
5:58
about all the new stuff in uh those packages
6:02
in uh those packages
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in uh those packages i wanted to talk a little bit about the
6:03
i wanted to talk a little bit about the
6:03
i wanted to talk a little bit about the upcoming conferences
6:05
upcoming conferences
6:05
upcoming conferences at c-sharp corner and specifically the
6:07
at c-sharp corner and specifically the
6:07
at c-sharp corner and specifically the one on june 18th
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one on june 18th
6:09
one on june 18th uh because that's the one i'm heading up
6:12
uh because that's the one i'm heading up
6:12
uh because that's the one i'm heading up so i'm
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so i'm
6:12
so i'm on june 18th i'm going to head up a code
6:14
on june 18th i'm going to head up a code
6:14
on june 18th i'm going to head up a code quality and performance virtual
6:16
quality and performance virtual
6:16
quality and performance virtual conference
6:17
conference
6:17
conference for c-sharp corner live and um
6:20
for c-sharp corner live and um
6:20
for c-sharp corner live and um i hope not only will you join me in that
6:22
i hope not only will you join me in that
6:22
i hope not only will you join me in that i'm really excited i've wanted to do
6:24
i'm really excited i've wanted to do
6:24
i'm really excited i've wanted to do a conference like this for many years
6:27
a conference like this for many years
6:27
a conference like this for many years and
6:28
and
6:28
and i just couldn't find the time or the
6:31
i just couldn't find the time or the
6:31
i just couldn't find the time or the people to help me do it
6:32
people to help me do it
6:32
people to help me do it live in person so i'm very grateful for
6:35
live in person so i'm very grateful for
6:35
live in person so i'm very grateful for c-sharp corner for asking me to do this
6:37
c-sharp corner for asking me to do this
6:37
c-sharp corner for asking me to do this because it's a
6:38
because it's a
6:38
because it's a it's uh near and dear to my heart um
6:42
it's uh near and dear to my heart um
6:42
it's uh near and dear to my heart um so anyway uh go to c-sharp corner live
6:45
so anyway uh go to c-sharp corner live
6:45
so anyway uh go to c-sharp corner live or c-sharp corner i'm not really sure
6:47
or c-sharp corner i'm not really sure
6:47
or c-sharp corner i'm not really sure where the link is
6:48
where the link is
6:48
where the link is and you can also sign up to speak at the
6:50
and you can also sign up to speak at the
6:50
and you can also sign up to speak at the conference so
6:51
conference so
6:51
conference so if you want to speak at my conference
6:53
if you want to speak at my conference
6:53
if you want to speak at my conference please now submit your papers so we can
6:56
please now submit your papers so we can
6:56
please now submit your papers so we can do an awesome conference i already have
6:58
do an awesome conference i already have
6:58
do an awesome conference i already have speakers lined up for microsoft
7:00
speakers lined up for microsoft
7:00
speakers lined up for microsoft and other places and so it's going to be
7:02
and other places and so it's going to be
7:02
and other places and so it's going to be a really great
7:03
a really great
7:03
a really great uh fun fun day and it's on a friday i
7:05
uh fun fun day and it's on a friday i
7:05
uh fun fun day and it's on a friday i think so
7:09
all right that's it for that and so i'm
7:12
all right that's it for that and so i'm
7:12
all right that's it for that and so i'm going to bring on the
7:14
going to bring on the
7:14
going to bring on the andy he's uh andy is a microsoft
7:16
andy he's uh andy is a microsoft
7:16
andy he's uh andy is a microsoft developer
7:17
developer
7:17
developer technologies mvp asp insider he's an
7:20
technologies mvp asp insider he's an
7:20
technologies mvp asp insider he's an experienced trainer
7:22
experienced trainer
7:22
experienced trainer uh speaker uh blogger and conference
7:25
uh speaker uh blogger and conference
7:25
uh speaker uh blogger and conference organizer
7:26
organizer
7:26
organizer as a avp application developer he's
7:28
as a avp application developer he's
7:28
as a avp application developer he's responsible for moving the
7:30
responsible for moving the
7:30
responsible for moving the it department forward through the use of
7:33
it department forward through the use of
7:33
it department forward through the use of new technology
7:34
new technology
7:34
new technology best practices devops cloud additionally
7:36
best practices devops cloud additionally
7:36
best practices devops cloud additionally andy is a founding board member
7:38
andy is a founding board member
7:38
andy is a founding board member and organizer at tech bash an annual
7:41
and organizer at tech bash an annual
7:41
and organizer at tech bash an annual conference for developers
7:42
conference for developers
7:42
conference for developers and he's been creating software
7:44
and he's been creating software
7:44
and he's been creating software applications since 1999.
7:46
applications since 1999.
7:46
applications since 1999. awesome mandy i got you a little bit
7:48
awesome mandy i got you a little bit
7:48
awesome mandy i got you a little bit beat i i've been doing it since 1994.
7:51
beat i i've been doing it since 1994.
7:51
beat i i've been doing it since 1994. so uh i guess we're old so anyway
7:54
so uh i guess we're old so anyway
7:54
so uh i guess we're old so anyway welcome andy
7:57
hi how are you good to be here uh let me
8:00
hi how are you good to be here uh let me
8:00
hi how are you good to be here uh let me start out by
8:01
start out by
8:01
start out by by saying that uh your your plea at the
8:04
by saying that uh your your plea at the
8:04
by saying that uh your your plea at the beginning
8:05
beginning
8:05
beginning about the situation in india you know
8:06
about the situation in india you know
8:06
about the situation in india you know it's something i'm aware of too as a
8:08
it's something i'm aware of too as a
8:08
it's something i'm aware of too as a matter of fact
8:09
matter of fact
8:09
matter of fact and uh i thought you did a really nice
8:11
and uh i thought you did a really nice
8:11
and uh i thought you did a really nice job the way you put that was really nice
8:13
job the way you put that was really nice
8:14
job the way you put that was really nice i will match your 100 donation uh you
8:17
i will match your 100 donation uh you
8:17
i will match your 100 donation uh you didn't ask me that in advance that
8:18
didn't ask me that in advance that
8:18
didn't ask me that in advance that wasn't set up i didn't even know
8:20
wasn't set up i didn't even know
8:20
wasn't set up i didn't even know that you were doing it nobody knew about
8:21
that you were doing it nobody knew about
8:21
that you were doing it nobody knew about this yeah i will certainly match that
8:24
this yeah i will certainly match that
8:24
this yeah i will certainly match that um you know as an example i'm
8:27
um you know as an example i'm
8:27
um you know as an example i'm i'm coming into this as let's just say
8:29
i'm coming into this as let's just say
8:29
i'm coming into this as let's just say random person here right
8:31
random person here right
8:31
random person here right um and on monday
8:35
um and on monday
8:35
um and on monday just you know just so people can see the
8:36
just you know just so people can see the
8:36
just you know just so people can see the scope of this problem if people aren't
8:38
scope of this problem if people aren't
8:38
scope of this problem if people aren't aware
8:39
aware
8:39
aware on monday we had two new contractors in
8:42
on monday we had two new contractors in
8:42
on monday we had two new contractors in india starting
8:43
india starting
8:43
india starting on one of our teams and on tuesday
8:46
on one of our teams and on tuesday
8:46
on one of our teams and on tuesday one of them was out with code like it's
8:48
one of them was out with code like it's
8:48
one of them was out with code like it's just
8:50
just
8:50
just and i'm not trying to say that this is a
8:52
and i'm not trying to say that this is a
8:52
and i'm not trying to say that this is a hardship for us what i'm just saying is
8:53
hardship for us what i'm just saying is
8:53
hardship for us what i'm just saying is like
8:54
like
8:54
like boom there it is like it is just right
8:56
boom there it is like it is just right
8:56
boom there it is like it is just right there it is
8:57
there it is
8:57
there it is just it is it is crazy uh
9:00
just it is it is crazy uh
9:00
just it is it is crazy uh and it's really easy for us in the u.s
9:03
and it's really easy for us in the u.s
9:03
and it's really easy for us in the u.s like i'm fully vaccinated right me too
9:07
like i'm fully vaccinated right me too
9:07
like i'm fully vaccinated right me too and a lot of my friends are mostly
9:09
and a lot of my friends are mostly
9:09
and a lot of my friends are mostly vaccinated right and we feel like
9:11
vaccinated right and we feel like
9:11
vaccinated right and we feel like this is kind of over right it's easy for
9:15
this is kind of over right it's easy for
9:15
this is kind of over right it's easy for us to feel like this is over
9:16
us to feel like this is over
9:16
us to feel like this is over yeah it's not over no
9:19
yeah it's not over no
9:20
yeah it's not over no really not we're really really fortunate
9:22
really not we're really really fortunate
9:22
really not we're really really fortunate and again
9:23
and again
9:23
and again i i i hope this will be an upbeat show a
9:26
i i i hope this will be an upbeat show a
9:26
i i i hope this will be an upbeat show a fun show right but
9:28
fun show right but
9:28
fun show right but uh we can't not address the elephant in
9:29
uh we can't not address the elephant in
9:30
uh we can't not address the elephant in the room right which is an important
9:31
the room right which is an important
9:31
the room right which is an important thing and so
9:32
thing and so
9:32
thing and so i hope people will join you and c sharp
9:35
i hope people will join you and c sharp
9:35
i hope people will join you and c sharp corner in this
9:36
corner in this
9:36
corner in this in this uh drive for support for our
9:39
in this uh drive for support for our
9:39
in this uh drive for support for our friends
9:40
friends
9:40
friends uh around the world you know yeah and
9:43
uh around the world you know yeah and
9:43
uh around the world you know yeah and yeah thank you and uh you know uh
9:46
yeah thank you and uh you know uh
9:46
yeah thank you and uh you know uh i forgot what i was going to say about
9:48
i forgot what i was going to say about
9:48
i forgot what i was going to say about that um
9:50
that um
9:50
that um yeah it's uh you know they're uh really
9:53
yeah it's uh you know they're uh really
9:53
yeah it's uh you know they're uh really dealing with a lot and we can help them
9:55
dealing with a lot and we can help them
9:55
dealing with a lot and we can help them and
9:55
and
9:56
and and a lot of americans might say or
9:57
and a lot of americans might say or
9:58
and a lot of americans might say or other people in other countries might
9:59
other people in other countries might
9:59
other people in other countries might say well why do i care about you know
10:01
say well why do i care about you know
10:01
say well why do i care about you know people in india
10:02
people in india
10:02
people in india well you know you should care because
10:04
well you know you should care because
10:04
well you know you should care because you know if if
10:05
you know if if
10:05
you know if if what's going on in india creates another
10:07
what's going on in india creates another
10:07
what's going on in india creates another variant
10:08
variant
10:08
variant uh the whole world might be screwed you
10:11
uh the whole world might be screwed you
10:11
uh the whole world might be screwed you know so
10:12
know so
10:12
know so uh if it doesn't it is it if it isn't
10:15
uh if it doesn't it is it if it isn't
10:15
uh if it doesn't it is it if it isn't caught by the vaccines
10:16
caught by the vaccines
10:16
caught by the vaccines like you and i have taken right so it's
10:19
like you and i have taken right so it's
10:19
like you and i have taken right so it's the whole world should care i mean it is
10:23
the whole world should care i mean it is
10:23
the whole world should care i mean it is you know the concept of you know what
10:25
you know the concept of you know what
10:25
you know the concept of you know what the what the globe what the world meant
10:27
the what the globe what the world meant
10:27
the what the globe what the world meant you know 100 years ago even 50 years ago
10:30
you know 100 years ago even 50 years ago
10:30
you know 100 years ago even 50 years ago is so different
10:32
is so different
10:32
is so different than the sort of the scope the scope has
10:34
than the sort of the scope the scope has
10:34
than the sort of the scope the scope has changed i mean
10:35
changed i mean
10:35
changed i mean you know it's it's just not that big a
10:39
you know it's it's just not that big a
10:39
you know it's it's just not that big a planet anymore you know
10:41
planet anymore you know
10:41
planet anymore you know but you know yeah and i heard that this
10:44
but you know yeah and i heard that this
10:44
but you know yeah and i heard that this morning they're restricting travel now
10:45
morning they're restricting travel now
10:46
morning they're restricting travel now from india so uh well i i think that's
10:49
from india so uh well i i think that's
10:49
from india so uh well i i think that's probably a good idea i mean yeah oh yeah
10:50
probably a good idea i mean yeah oh yeah
10:50
probably a good idea i mean yeah oh yeah yeah
10:51
yeah
10:51
yeah yeah right but i mean some of the
10:53
yeah right but i mean some of the
10:53
yeah right but i mean some of the contractors that might be trying to come
10:55
contractors that might be trying to come
10:55
contractors that might be trying to come back
10:56
back
10:56
back might not be able to come back you know
10:58
might not be able to come back you know
10:58
might not be able to come back you know for a while so yeah
11:00
for a while so yeah
11:00
for a while so yeah well so we wish everybody well those
11:01
well so we wish everybody well those
11:02
well so we wish everybody well those that are ill you know speedy recovery
11:04
that are ill you know speedy recovery
11:04
that are ill you know speedy recovery and uh hang in there we understand we've
11:07
and uh hang in there we understand we've
11:07
and uh hang in there we understand we've got your back you know what can we do
11:09
got your back you know what can we do
11:09
got your back you know what can we do and
11:09
and
11:09
and we're here you know yeah yeah and uh
11:12
we're here you know yeah yeah and uh
11:12
we're here you know yeah yeah and uh and i hope everybody listens right to my
11:16
and i hope everybody listens right to my
11:16
and i hope everybody listens right to my beliefs at the beginning because uh and
11:18
beliefs at the beginning because uh and
11:18
beliefs at the beginning because uh and if you're
11:19
if you're
11:19
if you're sorry i didn't know it was gonna be so
11:20
sorry i didn't know it was gonna be so
11:20
sorry i didn't know it was gonna be so tough to get through
11:22
tough to get through
11:22
tough to get through wear a mask yes please wear a mask
11:26
wear a mask yes please wear a mask
11:26
wear a mask yes please wear a mask anywhere you are right even if you're
11:28
anywhere you are right even if you're
11:28
anywhere you are right even if you're vaccinated wear a mask
11:29
vaccinated wear a mask
11:29
vaccinated wear a mask right you know it's just follow the
11:31
right you know it's just follow the
11:31
right you know it's just follow the guidelines you know of your state or
11:33
guidelines you know of your state or
11:33
guidelines you know of your state or country and
11:34
country and
11:34
country and uh right you know um i think we could
11:37
uh right you know um i think we could
11:37
uh right you know um i think we could kick this but you know we're not
11:38
kick this but you know we're not
11:38
kick this but you know we're not it's not over you know so um
11:42
it's not over you know so um
11:42
it's not over you know so um yeah now that everybody in america is
11:44
yeah now that everybody in america is
11:44
yeah now that everybody in america is all looking forward to the summer
11:45
all looking forward to the summer
11:45
all looking forward to the summer and having fun and all that stuff but
11:47
and having fun and all that stuff but
11:48
and having fun and all that stuff but you know
11:48
you know
11:48
you know it's we still got a ways to go to to
11:52
it's we still got a ways to go to to
11:52
it's we still got a ways to go to to combat this problem you're right
11:56
combat this problem you're right
11:56
combat this problem you're right okay so how do we move on from that i
11:58
okay so how do we move on from that i
11:58
okay so how do we move on from that i don't know
12:01
don't know
12:01
don't know um let's talk about stuff we like right
12:04
um let's talk about stuff we like right
12:04
um let's talk about stuff we like right yeah yeah so oh everybody are we both
12:06
yeah yeah so oh everybody are we both
12:06
yeah yeah so oh everybody are we both like guitars i've got one behind me
12:08
like guitars i've got one behind me
12:08
like guitars i've got one behind me there
12:10
so everybody make sure you uh uh uh make
12:13
so everybody make sure you uh uh uh make
12:13
so everybody make sure you uh uh uh make a comment if you want to ask andy a
12:14
a comment if you want to ask andy a
12:14
a comment if you want to ask andy a question
12:15
question
12:15
question uh he gave me a big long list uh to talk
12:17
uh he gave me a big long list uh to talk
12:17
uh he gave me a big long list uh to talk about
12:18
about
12:18
about today and uh i think we picked a couple
12:21
today and uh i think we picked a couple
12:21
today and uh i think we picked a couple subjects and we're not gonna get through
12:22
subjects and we're not gonna get through
12:22
subjects and we're not gonna get through all of them but
12:24
all of them but
12:24
all of them but um so what would you like to talk about
12:27
um so what would you like to talk about
12:27
um so what would you like to talk about andy first
12:29
andy first
12:29
andy first out of those ones that i like asterisk
12:31
out of those ones that i like asterisk
12:31
out of those ones that i like asterisk we had a list
12:32
we had a list
12:32
we had a list um and i think i don't i don't have it
12:34
um and i think i don't i don't have it
12:34
um and i think i don't i don't have it up in front of me right the title i
12:35
up in front of me right the title i
12:35
up in front of me right the title i think the
12:36
think the
12:36
think the main thing you had sent out was code
12:37
main thing you had sent out was code
12:37
main thing you had sent out was code quality yes
12:39
quality yes
12:39
quality yes um like
12:42
um like
12:42
um like my job like this is interesting because
12:44
my job like this is interesting because
12:44
my job like this is interesting because i still try to
12:46
i still try to
12:46
i still try to put this into words properly and i uh i
12:49
put this into words properly and i uh i
12:49
put this into words properly and i uh i don't always have like the the right
12:51
don't always have like the the right
12:51
don't always have like the the right explanation of what my job is what i
12:52
explanation of what my job is what i
12:52
explanation of what my job is what i think my job is as
12:54
think my job is as
12:54
think my job is as as the avp and the company i work but
12:57
as the avp and the company i work but
12:57
as the avp and the company i work but i try to say that my job is to
13:00
i try to say that my job is to
13:00
i try to say that my job is to is to help the engineers you know the
13:03
is to help the engineers you know the
13:03
is to help the engineers you know the developers engineers we actually call
13:05
developers engineers we actually call
13:05
developers engineers we actually call them developers whatever you want to
13:06
them developers whatever you want to
13:06
them developers whatever you want to call them like
13:07
call them like
13:07
call them like to help everyone be the best that they
13:09
to help everyone be the best that they
13:09
to help everyone be the best that they can possibly be
13:10
can possibly be
13:10
can possibly be right right and focus on
13:13
right right and focus on
13:13
right right and focus on um quality right quality over quantity
13:17
um quality right quality over quantity
13:17
um quality right quality over quantity quantity is really important
13:18
quantity is really important
13:18
quantity is really important we know that quantity raised the bills
13:21
we know that quantity raised the bills
13:21
we know that quantity raised the bills to something
13:22
to something
13:22
to something in other words we've got to i get that
13:25
in other words we've got to i get that
13:25
in other words we've got to i get that but we've got to have good code one of
13:28
but we've got to have good code one of
13:28
but we've got to have good code one of the things i talk about
13:29
the things i talk about
13:29
the things i talk about all the time in my in my you know talks
13:32
all the time in my in my you know talks
13:32
all the time in my in my you know talks wherever i am right ends up being
13:35
wherever i am right ends up being
13:35
wherever i am right ends up being about um what is the goal that we're
13:38
about um what is the goal that we're
13:38
about um what is the goal that we're trying to accomplish
13:39
trying to accomplish
13:39
trying to accomplish as software develop i talk a lot about
13:41
as software develop i talk a lot about
13:41
as software develop i talk a lot about patterns right uh
13:43
patterns right uh
13:43
patterns right uh patterns and best practices and things
13:45
patterns and best practices and things
13:45
patterns and best practices and things like that and
13:46
like that and
13:46
like that and you know at the core of it is what
13:48
you know at the core of it is what
13:48
you know at the core of it is what problem are you trying to solve
13:49
problem are you trying to solve
13:50
problem are you trying to solve right and i know you know this kind of
13:51
right and i know you know this kind of
13:51
right and i know you know this kind of stuff but what are you trying to solve
13:53
stuff but what are you trying to solve
13:53
stuff but what are you trying to solve and for me
13:54
and for me
13:54
and for me and most people that i know the biggest
13:57
and most people that i know the biggest
13:57
and most people that i know the biggest problem we're trying to solve aside from
13:59
problem we're trying to solve aside from
13:59
problem we're trying to solve aside from producing the the thing that we're
14:01
producing the the thing that we're
14:01
producing the the thing that we're trying to make right
14:02
trying to make right
14:02
trying to make right aside from that you know it's not
14:05
aside from that you know it's not
14:05
aside from that you know it's not necessarily performance performance is
14:06
necessarily performance performance is
14:06
necessarily performance performance is important right
14:07
important right
14:07
important right it's security it's all these other
14:09
it's security it's all these other
14:09
it's security it's all these other things but at the core at the root of it
14:10
things but at the core at the root of it
14:10
things but at the core at the root of it all
14:11
all
14:11
all is maintainability because
14:15
is maintainability because
14:15
is maintainability because a couple months from now someone's gonna
14:17
a couple months from now someone's gonna
14:17
a couple months from now someone's gonna want a new feature right
14:19
want a new feature right
14:19
want a new feature right and and we need to be able to get in
14:20
and and we need to be able to get in
14:20
and and we need to be able to get in there and make that change
14:22
there and make that change
14:22
there and make that change and get it done quickly and move on to
14:23
and get it done quickly and move on to
14:24
and get it done quickly and move on to the next thing right and so
14:25
the next thing right and so
14:25
the next thing right and so i just feel like so much of this
14:26
i just feel like so much of this
14:26
i just feel like so much of this revolves around maintainability
14:29
revolves around maintainability
14:29
revolves around maintainability and when you talk about quality you know
14:32
and when you talk about quality you know
14:32
and when you talk about quality you know that's always the eye i'm looking
14:33
that's always the eye i'm looking
14:33
that's always the eye i'm looking through software at is you know you know
14:36
through software at is you know you know
14:36
through software at is you know you know call it quality or whatever but
14:38
call it quality or whatever but
14:38
call it quality or whatever but maintainability right um and so i think
14:42
maintainability right um and so i think
14:42
maintainability right um and so i think code quality is so important
14:44
code quality is so important
14:44
code quality is so important because it allows the code to be more
14:46
because it allows the code to be more
14:46
because it allows the code to be more maintainable i mean it allows for a lot
14:48
maintainable i mean it allows for a lot
14:48
maintainable i mean it allows for a lot of things but
14:49
of things but
14:49
of things but one of the great benefits we get out of
14:50
one of the great benefits we get out of
14:50
one of the great benefits we get out of it so you know
14:52
it so you know
14:52
it so you know i don't know what to say i'm a fan right
14:54
i don't know what to say i'm a fan right
14:54
i don't know what to say i'm a fan right of course me too
14:58
of course me too
14:58
of course me too well you know we've been around this
15:00
well you know we've been around this
15:00
well you know we've been around this world a long time and i know the younger
15:01
world a long time and i know the younger
15:01
world a long time and i know the younger developers i don't think don't really
15:03
developers i don't think don't really
15:03
developers i don't think don't really understand this or that's not being
15:05
understand this or that's not being
15:05
understand this or that's not being taught
15:05
taught
15:06
taught but you know when you're when you've
15:07
but you know when you're when you've
15:07
but you know when you're when you've been writing software as long as you and
15:09
been writing software as long as you and
15:09
been writing software as long as you and i have
15:09
i have
15:09
i have you know one of the things i say in in
15:11
you know one of the things i say in in
15:11
you know one of the things i say in in uh in some of my
15:13
uh in some of my
15:13
uh in some of my you know conference sessions is that how
15:15
you know conference sessions is that how
15:15
you know conference sessions is that how many i ask everybody a question
15:17
many i ask everybody a question
15:17
many i ask everybody a question how many people has have written
15:19
how many people has have written
15:19
how many people has have written software and never touched it again
15:22
software and never touched it again
15:22
software and never touched it again right the first version that's it we're
15:25
right the first version that's it we're
15:25
right the first version that's it we're not going to code anymore
15:27
not going to code anymore
15:27
not going to code anymore right yeah people keep using it no
15:30
right yeah people keep using it no
15:30
right yeah people keep using it no there's no such thing you know and so
15:33
there's no such thing you know and so
15:34
there's no such thing you know and so yes right yeah and i've i've been on
15:38
yes right yeah and i've i've been on
15:38
yes right yeah and i've i've been on not yelling but close to yelling matches
15:40
not yelling but close to yelling matches
15:40
not yelling but close to yelling matches with pms and managers
15:42
with pms and managers
15:42
with pms and managers because you know they just don't get it
15:45
because you know they just don't get it
15:45
because you know they just don't get it you know and they
15:46
you know and they
15:46
you know and they they say dave you know why you're you're
15:48
they say dave you know why you're you're
15:48
they say dave you know why you're you're the lead
15:49
the lead
15:49
the lead or architect or something why is it
15:50
or architect or something why is it
15:50
or architect or something why is it taking so long to you get this stuff
15:52
taking so long to you get this stuff
15:52
taking so long to you get this stuff done i go because
15:53
done i go because
15:53
done i go because your architecture is crap there isn't
15:56
your architecture is crap there isn't
15:56
your architecture is crap there isn't any architecture let's put it that way
15:58
any architecture let's put it that way
15:58
any architecture let's put it that way you know and so and even you know
16:02
you know and so and even you know
16:02
you know and so and even you know one company i worked at actually my last
16:04
one company i worked at actually my last
16:04
one company i worked at actually my last full-time job in
16:05
full-time job in
16:05
full-time job in cubeland you know um one of the last
16:08
cubeland you know um one of the last
16:08
cubeland you know um one of the last meetings i had
16:09
meetings i had
16:09
meetings i had with um uh the management there and
16:12
with um uh the management there and
16:12
with um uh the management there and maybe why i was part of the layoff
16:15
maybe why i was part of the layoff
16:15
maybe why i was part of the layoff was you know they they were all sitting
16:17
was you know they they were all sitting
16:17
was you know they they were all sitting around going well we need to do this
16:19
around going well we need to do this
16:19
around going well we need to do this feature we need to do this feature we
16:20
feature we need to do this feature we
16:20
feature we need to do this feature we need to do this feature you know
16:22
need to do this feature you know
16:22
need to do this feature you know just kind of like you were saying
16:23
just kind of like you were saying
16:23
just kind of like you were saying because that features pay bills right
16:25
because that features pay bills right
16:25
because that features pay bills right software quality doesn't pay the bills
16:27
software quality doesn't pay the bills
16:27
software quality doesn't pay the bills right it's
16:28
right it's
16:28
right it's features in the short term in the long
16:30
features in the short term in the long
16:30
features in the short term in the long term it might right right yes
16:32
term it might right right yes
16:32
term it might right right yes right yeah yeah and so so
16:35
right yeah yeah and so so
16:35
right yeah yeah and so so you know they kept saying this and i
16:38
you know they kept saying this and i
16:38
you know they kept saying this and i kept getting more upset
16:39
kept getting more upset
16:39
kept getting more upset you know just vis visually upset
16:43
you know just vis visually upset
16:43
you know just vis visually upset and uh you know um i finally raised my
16:46
and uh you know um i finally raised my
16:46
and uh you know um i finally raised my hand and said
16:47
hand and said
16:47
hand and said look right and this is in front of vps
16:50
look right and this is in front of vps
16:50
look right and this is in front of vps and i'm not talking my
16:51
and i'm not talking my
16:51
and i'm not talking my immediate managers i'm talking about vps
16:53
immediate managers i'm talking about vps
16:53
immediate managers i'm talking about vps at the company
16:54
at the company
16:54
at the company right i said look what you're asking for
16:57
right i said look what you're asking for
16:57
right i said look what you're asking for is either going uh to take so long
17:01
is either going uh to take so long
17:01
is either going uh to take so long that our competitor beats us in it right
17:06
that our competitor beats us in it right
17:06
that our competitor beats us in it right or it just isn't doable and i said until
17:09
or it just isn't doable and i said until
17:09
or it just isn't doable and i said until you
17:09
you
17:09
you finally break down and re redesign
17:13
finally break down and re redesign
17:13
finally break down and re redesign this crap database right and
17:16
this crap database right and
17:16
this crap database right and they just looked at me going what are
17:18
they just looked at me going what are
17:18
they just looked at me going what are you talking about and luckily my boss
17:20
you talking about and luckily my boss
17:20
you talking about and luckily my boss was sitting right next to me and said
17:21
was sitting right next to me and said
17:22
was sitting right next to me and said dave has been telling you this for four
17:23
dave has been telling you this for four
17:23
dave has been telling you this for four and a half years
17:25
and a half years
17:25
and a half years why don't you listen to him
17:28
why don't you listen to him
17:28
why don't you listen to him you know and that's the kind of thing
17:29
you know and that's the kind of thing
17:30
you know and that's the kind of thing we're dealing with in professional
17:31
we're dealing with in professional
17:31
we're dealing with in professional software companies
17:32
software companies
17:32
software companies right and uh because you know we wrote i
17:35
right and uh because you know we wrote i
17:35
right and uh because you know we wrote i mean
17:36
mean
17:36
mean you worked for an it company but we
17:37
you worked for an it company but we
17:37
you worked for an it company but we wrote you know shrink wrap product
17:40
wrote you know shrink wrap product
17:40
wrote you know shrink wrap product you know essentially yeah yeah no i i
17:43
you know essentially yeah yeah no i i
17:43
you know essentially yeah yeah no i i don't do that right i don't work well i
17:45
don't do that right i don't work well i
17:45
don't do that right i don't work well i work for
17:45
work for
17:45
work for a i work for an insurance company right
17:47
a i work for an insurance company right
17:47
a i work for an insurance company right so i'm in it department but our product
17:49
so i'm in it department but our product
17:49
so i'm in it department but our product isn't it isn't software right it's just
17:51
isn't it isn't software right it's just
17:52
isn't it isn't software right it's just part of our business
17:53
part of our business
17:53
part of our business you know dave i think i think that
17:56
you know dave i think i think that
17:56
you know dave i think i think that um it's it's really easy for
18:00
um it's it's really easy for
18:00
um it's it's really easy for you know for us to be like ivory tower
18:02
you know for us to be like ivory tower
18:02
you know for us to be like ivory tower uh architects
18:03
uh architects
18:03
uh architects and look down and say well you're doing
18:04
and look down and say well you're doing
18:04
and look down and say well you're doing it wrong you have to it's really
18:06
it wrong you have to it's really
18:06
it wrong you have to it's really important for us to
18:08
important for us to
18:08
important for us to understand how hard it is it's it's
18:11
understand how hard it is it's it's
18:11
understand how hard it is it's it's what we're saying this is not an easy
18:13
what we're saying this is not an easy
18:13
what we're saying this is not an easy thing to accomplish right
18:15
thing to accomplish right
18:15
thing to accomplish right it sounds like you say well just write
18:17
it sounds like you say well just write
18:17
it sounds like you say well just write the code properly
18:18
the code properly
18:18
the code properly and in a vacuum that's a great thing
18:22
and in a vacuum that's a great thing
18:22
and in a vacuum that's a great thing right but we
18:22
right but we
18:22
right but we understand it's really important for
18:24
understand it's really important for
18:24
understand it's really important for managers senior level people to
18:26
managers senior level people to
18:26
managers senior level people to understand that this
18:28
understand that this
18:28
understand that this isn't a simple solution and so to start
18:31
isn't a simple solution and so to start
18:32
isn't a simple solution and so to start with the whole thing
18:33
with the whole thing
18:33
with the whole thing it really has nothing to do with the
18:35
it really has nothing to do with the
18:35
it really has nothing to do with the developers
18:36
developers
18:36
developers it's a corporate culture right
18:40
it's a corporate culture right
18:40
it's a corporate culture right so many things are driven by corporate
18:41
so many things are driven by corporate
18:42
so many things are driven by corporate culture from the ceo down i mean it
18:44
culture from the ceo down i mean it
18:44
culture from the ceo down i mean it really depends on the size of your
18:45
really depends on the size of your
18:45
really depends on the size of your organization
18:46
organization
18:46
organization in a company like our size i would say
18:48
in a company like our size i would say
18:48
in a company like our size i would say it's like from you know from the
18:49
it's like from you know from the
18:49
it's like from you know from the executives
18:50
executives
18:50
executives down to the developers down to the
18:53
down to the developers down to the
18:53
down to the developers down to the business stakeholders down to everybody
18:55
business stakeholders down to everybody
18:55
business stakeholders down to everybody everybody has to understand certain
18:57
everybody has to understand certain
18:57
everybody has to understand certain cultural priorities right and
19:00
cultural priorities right and
19:00
cultural priorities right and and i think it's really hard for
19:01
and i think it's really hard for
19:01
and i think it's really hard for developers to
19:03
developers to
19:03
developers to escape that if if that's not in place
19:05
escape that if if that's not in place
19:05
escape that if if that's not in place right right developers can only do so
19:07
right right developers can only do so
19:07
right right developers can only do so much i mean a little you know
19:08
much i mean a little you know
19:08
much i mean a little you know shout out to the developers that are out
19:10
shout out to the developers that are out
19:10
shout out to the developers that are out there trying to save the world right
19:11
there trying to save the world right
19:11
there trying to save the world right that are trying to
19:12
that are trying to
19:12
that are trying to fight the good fight and say hey i need
19:14
fight the good fight and say hey i need
19:14
fight the good fight and say hey i need more time
19:15
more time
19:15
more time um you know i i could get this done in a
19:18
um you know i i could get this done in a
19:18
um you know i i could get this done in a week but it's going to be junk
19:21
week but it's going to be junk
19:21
week but it's going to be junk or i could take two weeks and this is
19:23
or i could take two weeks and this is
19:24
or i could take two weeks and this is going to be something that's going to
19:24
going to be something that's going to
19:24
going to be something that's going to help us down the road right
19:26
help us down the road right
19:26
help us down the road right right and if the culture's not in place
19:29
right and if the culture's not in place
19:29
right and if the culture's not in place for that then there's a problem and so
19:32
for that then there's a problem and so
19:32
for that then there's a problem and so you know
19:32
you know
19:32
you know getting back to my role like i try to be
19:34
getting back to my role like i try to be
19:34
getting back to my role like i try to be that
19:36
that
19:36
that sort of advocate you know for the
19:38
sort of advocate you know for the
19:38
sort of advocate you know for the developers and
19:39
developers and
19:39
developers and and you know sort of pushing up and
19:41
and you know sort of pushing up and
19:41
and you know sort of pushing up and pushing down i sit in sort of middle
19:43
pushing down i sit in sort of middle
19:43
pushing down i sit in sort of middle middle of the road right um and but i
19:46
middle of the road right um and but i
19:46
middle of the road right um and but i work with the developers closely and i
19:48
work with the developers closely and i
19:48
work with the developers closely and i try to push down to them
19:49
try to push down to them
19:49
try to push down to them meaning say like let's do this right
19:51
meaning say like let's do this right
19:51
meaning say like let's do this right let's follow this pattern let's use this
19:53
let's follow this pattern let's use this
19:53
let's follow this pattern let's use this standard let's do these things right
19:55
standard let's do these things right
19:55
standard let's do these things right and keep reminding them and keep
19:56
and keep reminding them and keep
19:56
and keep reminding them and keep reminding them right
19:59
reminding them right
19:59
reminding them right um and training training is important
20:01
um and training training is important
20:01
um and training training is important which i don't see it happen a lot
20:03
which i don't see it happen a lot
20:03
which i don't see it happen a lot yeah i'm sorry i cut i'm sorry i cut
20:06
yeah i'm sorry i cut i'm sorry i cut
20:06
yeah i'm sorry i cut i'm sorry i cut into the training is important which i
20:07
into the training is important which i
20:08
into the training is important which i rarely see at companies anymore
20:09
rarely see at companies anymore
20:09
rarely see at companies anymore you know at least the ones i work at
20:11
you know at least the ones i work at
20:11
you know at least the ones i work at there's no training you know
20:13
there's no training you know
20:13
there's no training you know training's hard i have really mixed
20:15
training's hard i have really mixed
20:15
training's hard i have really mixed feelings about training
20:16
feelings about training
20:16
feelings about training um in other words like who's whose um
20:20
um in other words like who's whose um
20:20
um in other words like who's whose um burden training is right i believe
20:23
burden training is right i believe
20:23
burden training is right i believe that um that an
20:26
that um that an
20:26
that um that an organization should should take part in
20:30
organization should should take part in
20:30
organization should should take part in that training right an organization
20:31
that training right an organization
20:31
that training right an organization should provide
20:32
should provide
20:32
should provide opportunities for training and things
20:33
opportunities for training and things
20:34
opportunities for training and things like that but i also get a little
20:37
like that but i also get a little
20:37
like that but i also get a little um i can easily flip
20:41
um i can easily flip
20:41
um i can easily flip sides of this argument when developers
20:44
sides of this argument when developers
20:44
sides of this argument when developers complain about how their companies don't
20:45
complain about how their companies don't
20:45
complain about how their companies don't necessarily provide enough or at all or
20:48
necessarily provide enough or at all or
20:48
necessarily provide enough or at all or whatever and i said well what are you
20:49
whatever and i said well what are you
20:49
whatever and i said well what are you doing about it
20:49
doing about it
20:49
doing about it right right you know and you say well i
20:51
right right you know and you say well i
20:51
right right you know and you say well i don't know i said well flip on c
20:53
don't know i said well flip on c
20:53
don't know i said well flip on c sharp corner for guys right like
20:56
sharp corner for guys right like
20:56
sharp corner for guys right like there's so many opportunities right now
20:59
there's so many opportunities right now
20:59
there's so many opportunities right now for developers
21:00
for developers
21:00
for developers so take ownership of your career don't
21:02
so take ownership of your career don't
21:02
so take ownership of your career don't leave let's say i'm your manager you
21:04
leave let's say i'm your manager you
21:04
leave let's say i'm your manager you know don't leave it for me
21:05
know don't leave it for me
21:05
know don't leave it for me to be in control of your career you take
21:07
to be in control of your career you take
21:07
to be in control of your career you take control of your career
21:09
control of your career
21:09
control of your career right you know like go out and find that
21:11
right you know like go out and find that
21:11
right you know like go out and find that training learn that thing
21:13
training learn that thing
21:13
training learn that thing i know everyone's gonna say well i've
21:15
i know everyone's gonna say well i've
21:15
i know everyone's gonna say well i've got young kids or i've got two jobs and
21:17
got young kids or i've got two jobs and
21:18
got young kids or i've got two jobs and i
21:18
i
21:18
i understand all that it all sounds easy
21:20
understand all that it all sounds easy
21:20
understand all that it all sounds easy to say
21:21
to say
21:21
to say right we don't like the word easy right
21:23
right we don't like the word easy right
21:23
right we don't like the word easy right it sounds so easy and it's not so easy
21:27
it sounds so easy and it's not so easy
21:27
it sounds so easy and it's not so easy i can tell you personally i put a lot of
21:29
i can tell you personally i put a lot of
21:29
i can tell you personally i put a lot of personal time in
21:31
personal time in
21:31
personal time in to learn right right and
21:34
to learn right right and
21:34
to learn right right and you know most of the people that i in
21:36
you know most of the people that i in
21:36
you know most of the people that i in the circle that i
21:37
the circle that i
21:37
the circle that i you know talk with whether it be like
21:38
you know talk with whether it be like
21:38
you know talk with whether it be like the speakers on the circuit and things
21:40
the speakers on the circuit and things
21:40
the speakers on the circuit and things like that or people that you have on the
21:41
like that or people that you have on the
21:41
like that or people that you have on the show
21:42
show
21:42
show didn't just learn stuff at work
21:46
but the culture at work it helps if the
21:48
but the culture at work it helps if the
21:48
but the culture at work it helps if the culture at work is a learning culture to
21:50
culture at work is a learning culture to
21:50
culture at work is a learning culture to start right
21:51
start right
21:51
start right right meaning encouraging people to say
21:53
right meaning encouraging people to say
21:53
right meaning encouraging people to say hey share what you learn you know in in
21:56
hey share what you learn you know in in
21:56
hey share what you learn you know in in work right you know
21:58
work right you know
21:58
work right you know i don't know there's a lot of back and
21:59
i don't know there's a lot of back and
21:59
i don't know there's a lot of back and forth you know and maybe we're drifting
22:01
forth you know and maybe we're drifting
22:01
forth you know and maybe we're drifting onto a whole different topic here but
22:03
onto a whole different topic here but
22:03
onto a whole different topic here but um i think there's a there's a balance
22:05
um i think there's a there's a balance
22:05
um i think there's a there's a balance of whose responsibility training is
22:08
of whose responsibility training is
22:08
of whose responsibility training is you know um it's everybody's
22:10
you know um it's everybody's
22:10
you know um it's everybody's responsibility to learn right and
22:12
responsibility to learn right and
22:12
responsibility to learn right and and that's you know that's one thing
22:13
and that's you know that's one thing
22:13
and that's you know that's one thing i've said over and over and over and
22:15
i've said over and over and over and
22:15
i've said over and over and over and over again
22:16
over again
22:16
over again on twitter and in my conference talks is
22:18
on twitter and in my conference talks is
22:18
on twitter and in my conference talks is that you know if you want to get into
22:19
that you know if you want to get into
22:19
that you know if you want to get into software engineering to have a
22:20
software engineering to have a
22:20
software engineering to have a nine-to-five job this is the wrong
22:22
nine-to-five job this is the wrong
22:22
nine-to-five job this is the wrong career for you
22:23
career for you
22:23
career for you right because you know you have to you
22:26
right because you know you have to you
22:26
right because you know you have to you know how much time i spend
22:27
know how much time i spend
22:27
know how much time i spend not at work learning and writing and
22:31
not at work learning and writing and
22:31
not at work learning and writing and and all these things that i do it's it's
22:32
and all these things that i do it's it's
22:32
and all these things that i do it's it's crazy you know
22:34
crazy you know
22:34
crazy you know and it's like playing guitar right you
22:37
and it's like playing guitar right you
22:37
and it's like playing guitar right you know
22:37
know
22:37
know i practice guitar every weekend every
22:40
i practice guitar every weekend every
22:40
i practice guitar every weekend every weekend
22:41
weekend
22:41
weekend both days right and i've been playing
22:44
both days right and i've been playing
22:44
both days right and i've been playing guitar for
22:46
guitar for
22:46
guitar for almost 40 years you know and i still
22:50
almost 40 years you know and i still
22:50
almost 40 years you know and i still practice every weekend right because i
22:53
practice every weekend right because i
22:53
practice every weekend right because i have to because if i don't
22:55
have to because if i don't
22:55
have to because if i don't i'm not going to retain it i'm going to
22:56
i'm not going to retain it i'm going to
22:56
i'm not going to retain it i'm going to lose it i'm not going to learn anything
22:58
lose it i'm not going to learn anything
22:58
lose it i'm not going to learn anything new
22:59
new
22:59
new you know and and that's the way software
23:01
you know and and that's the way software
23:01
you know and and that's the way software engineering is it changes
23:03
engineering is it changes
23:03
engineering is it changes every day and you have to keep up with
23:04
every day and you have to keep up with
23:04
every day and you have to keep up with it and i and i tell people it's your
23:06
it and i and i tell people it's your
23:06
it and i and i tell people it's your responsibility
23:08
responsibility
23:08
responsibility right and i think companies should have
23:10
right and i think companies should have
23:10
right and i think companies should have a culture like you're talking about
23:11
a culture like you're talking about
23:11
a culture like you're talking about but it's also the responsibility of
23:13
but it's also the responsibility of
23:13
but it's also the responsibility of developer too i
23:14
developer too i
23:14
developer too i agree yeah yeah so
23:19
agree yeah yeah so
23:19
agree yeah yeah so it's important to uh to recognize the
23:21
it's important to uh to recognize the
23:21
it's important to uh to recognize the difference between
23:22
difference between
23:22
difference between what you know a job and a career right
23:25
what you know a job and a career right
23:25
what you know a job and a career right like you said you want a nine to five
23:27
like you said you want a nine to five
23:27
like you said you want a nine to five hey that's great you can pay the bills
23:29
hey that's great you can pay the bills
23:29
hey that's great you can pay the bills you can make a plenty of a good living
23:31
you can make a plenty of a good living
23:31
you can make a plenty of a good living uh you can make a good living in
23:32
uh you can make a good living in
23:32
uh you can make a good living in software sure and no one's gonna bother
23:35
software sure and no one's gonna bother
23:35
software sure and no one's gonna bother you with plenty of companies you can
23:36
you with plenty of companies you can
23:36
you with plenty of companies you can just go about your way but if you know
23:38
just go about your way but if you know
23:38
just go about your way but if you know if you're looking to take control of
23:39
if you're looking to take control of
23:39
if you're looking to take control of your career you know
23:41
your career you know
23:41
your career you know right and and treat it as a craft that
23:43
right and and treat it as a craft that
23:43
right and and treat it as a craft that it that it it needs to be because like
23:45
it that it it needs to be because like
23:45
it that it it needs to be because like you said
23:46
you said
23:46
you said the thing is it's not static it's
23:49
the thing is it's not static it's
23:49
the thing is it's not static it's god i mean i i i'm never done and you
23:52
god i mean i i i'm never done and you
23:52
god i mean i i i'm never done and you know some of my
23:53
know some of my
23:53
know some of my some of the people that i work with you
23:55
some of the people that i work with you
23:55
some of the people that i work with you know that i that uh coaching mentoring
23:57
know that i that uh coaching mentoring
23:57
know that i that uh coaching mentoring and you know
23:58
and you know
23:58
and you know even training i guess we'd say at work
23:59
even training i guess we'd say at work
23:59
even training i guess we'd say at work you know but it's like i
24:01
you know but it's like i
24:01
you know but it's like i they learn stuff and they think okay i
24:03
they learn stuff and they think okay i
24:03
they learn stuff and they think okay i got it and i'm like no you're not done
24:05
got it and i'm like no you're not done
24:05
got it and i'm like no you're not done yet
24:07
yet
24:07
yet there's another new thing on top of that
24:09
there's another new thing on top of that
24:09
there's another new thing on top of that right but
24:10
right but
24:10
right but um but the thing is on all these topics
24:12
um but the thing is on all these topics
24:12
um but the thing is on all these topics right we can learn all these little
24:14
right we can learn all these little
24:14
right we can learn all these little things but that doesn't get us to code
24:15
things but that doesn't get us to code
24:16
things but that doesn't get us to code quality
24:16
quality
24:16
quality right so i'm trying to bring it back
24:19
right so i'm trying to bring it back
24:19
right so i'm trying to bring it back around to that
24:20
around to that
24:20
around to that thanks you know it's um
24:23
thanks you know it's um
24:23
thanks you know it's um [Music]
24:24
[Music]
24:24
[Music] it's something that frustrates me as as
24:28
it's something that frustrates me as as
24:28
it's something that frustrates me as as a
24:28
a
24:28
a as a leader in the organization is when
24:31
as a leader in the organization is when
24:31
as a leader in the organization is when people don't take the time
24:33
people don't take the time
24:33
people don't take the time to i guess i would say to like
24:36
to i guess i would say to like
24:36
to i guess i would say to like really understand a framework or
24:40
really understand a framework or
24:40
really understand a framework or a a library or whatever the thing is
24:43
a a library or whatever the thing is
24:43
a a library or whatever the thing is that we're using right
24:45
that we're using right
24:45
that we're using right i mean an example that comes to my mind
24:47
i mean an example that comes to my mind
24:47
i mean an example that comes to my mind a lot is you know especially when i
24:49
a lot is you know especially when i
24:49
a lot is you know especially when i interview people that i try to get to
24:50
interview people that i try to get to
24:50
interview people that i try to get to the bottom of these things and
24:51
the bottom of these things and
24:51
the bottom of these things and you know you could talk about something
24:52
you know you could talk about something
24:52
you know you could talk about something like um you know link
24:54
like um you know link
24:54
like um you know link for example right you know or you talk
24:56
for example right you know or you talk
24:56
for example right you know or you talk about entity framework or you know
24:58
about entity framework or you know
24:58
about entity framework or you know just these things and it's like do you
25:00
just these things and it's like do you
25:00
just these things and it's like do you use it yeah i
25:01
use it yeah i
25:01
use it yeah i you know you use it but do you
25:03
you know you use it but do you
25:03
you know you use it but do you understand it
25:05
understand it
25:05
understand it right if you understand it you're gonna
25:07
right if you understand it you're gonna
25:07
right if you understand it you're gonna you're gonna have better quality
25:08
you're gonna have better quality
25:08
you're gonna have better quality software
25:09
software
25:09
software you're gonna be able to deal with it
25:11
you're gonna be able to deal with it
25:11
you're gonna be able to deal with it you're gonna be able to take advantage
25:12
you're gonna be able to take advantage
25:12
you're gonna be able to take advantage of the right features instead of
25:14
of the right features instead of
25:14
of the right features instead of building hacks to work around things
25:15
building hacks to work around things
25:15
building hacks to work around things that
25:16
that
25:16
that you know that you might be doing right
25:18
you know that you might be doing right
25:18
you know that you might be doing right and that's all part of
25:19
and that's all part of
25:19
and that's all part of quality is like really understanding
25:22
quality is like really understanding
25:22
quality is like really understanding what you're doing now there's so many
25:23
what you're doing now there's so many
25:24
what you're doing now there's so many frameworks like talk about
25:25
frameworks like talk about
25:26
frameworks like talk about you know a couple old guys here right
25:27
you know a couple old guys here right
25:27
you know a couple old guys here right but
25:29
but
25:29
but it was a lot there was a lot less
25:30
it was a lot there was a lot less
25:30
it was a lot there was a lot less frameworks when i started writing a song
25:32
frameworks when i started writing a song
25:32
frameworks when i started writing a song right you learned the language and you
25:34
right you learned the language and you
25:34
right you learned the language and you were pretty much good to go
25:36
were pretty much good to go
25:36
were pretty much good to go right i mean it quite that simple right
25:38
right i mean it quite that simple right
25:38
right i mean it quite that simple right but
25:39
but
25:39
but um i mean i i didn't start as a software
25:42
um i mean i i didn't start as a software
25:42
um i mean i i didn't start as a software developer
25:42
developer
25:42
developer so i've been doing this for a long time
25:44
so i've been doing this for a long time
25:44
so i've been doing this for a long time but i'm older than that
25:46
but i'm older than that
25:46
but i'm older than that also but i think when i started i had to
25:49
also but i think when i started i had to
25:50
also but i think when i started i had to know
25:50
know
25:50
know um java and
25:54
um java and
25:54
um java and some sql you know whatever and
25:58
some sql you know whatever and
25:58
some sql you know whatever and uh some html or something like that you
25:59
uh some html or something like that you
26:00
uh some html or something like that you know you're doing like sp or whatever
26:01
know you're doing like sp or whatever
26:01
know you're doing like sp or whatever but it wasn't there wasn't that much
26:03
but it wasn't there wasn't that much
26:03
but it wasn't there wasn't that much but now there's just layer upon layering
26:05
but now there's just layer upon layering
26:05
but now there's just layer upon layering i know
26:06
i know
26:06
i know it's it's just software engineering is
26:09
it's it's just software engineering is
26:09
it's it's just software engineering is so much
26:09
so much
26:10
so much more complicated now and uh you know and
26:13
more complicated now and uh you know and
26:13
more complicated now and uh you know and uh and and and i think it's moving
26:17
uh and and and i think it's moving
26:17
uh and and and i think it's moving too fast you know i i know you know i
26:20
too fast you know i i know you know i
26:20
too fast you know i i know you know i and and what i mean by that is it's to
26:22
and and what i mean by that is it's to
26:22
and and what i mean by that is it's to be moving too fast for me to keep up
26:24
be moving too fast for me to keep up
26:24
be moving too fast for me to keep up with
26:24
with
26:24
with you know because there's so much stuff
26:26
you know because there's so much stuff
26:26
you know because there's so much stuff out there you know
26:28
out there you know
26:28
out there you know it's overwhelming you know and and i
26:31
it's overwhelming you know and and i
26:31
it's overwhelming you know and and i actually had a professor call it
26:32
actually had a professor call it
26:32
actually had a professor call it technostress
26:33
technostress
26:34
technostress and man i got a case of that like a 200
26:37
and man i got a case of that like a 200
26:37
and man i got a case of that like a 200 right because all this stuff is up but
26:39
right because all this stuff is up but
26:39
right because all this stuff is up but what do i learn because i can't learn
26:40
what do i learn because i can't learn
26:40
what do i learn because i can't learn all of it
26:41
all of it
26:41
all of it right so which what what do i focus on
26:44
right so which what what do i focus on
26:44
right so which what what do i focus on and
26:44
and
26:44
and and you know back when i started there
26:47
and you know back when i started there
26:47
and you know back when i started there wasn't
26:48
wasn't
26:48
wasn't you didn't really have to do that right
26:49
you didn't really have to do that right
26:50
you didn't really have to do that right you know either you programmed don't
26:51
you know either you programmed don't
26:51
you know either you programmed don't have windows or
26:52
have windows or
26:52
have windows or mac and that's it you know it was pretty
26:54
mac and that's it you know it was pretty
26:54
mac and that's it you know it was pretty much it that back then
26:56
much it that back then
26:56
much it that back then right and i mean besides mainframe and
26:58
right and i mean besides mainframe and
26:58
right and i mean besides mainframe and things like that but
26:59
things like that but
26:59
things like that but you know it and there's only a few
27:01
you know it and there's only a few
27:01
you know it and there's only a few layers of stuff right and but now
27:03
layers of stuff right and but now
27:03
layers of stuff right and but now it's even to do like let's say you know
27:05
it's even to do like let's say you know
27:06
it's even to do like let's say you know i'm writing an article right now about
27:07
i'm writing an article right now about
27:07
i'm writing an article right now about um microservice architecture
27:09
um microservice architecture
27:09
um microservice architecture and just doing that is pretty
27:11
and just doing that is pretty
27:11
and just doing that is pretty complicated you know my my boss at work
27:13
complicated you know my my boss at work
27:13
complicated you know my my boss at work doesn't understand why it's taking so
27:14
doesn't understand why it's taking so
27:14
doesn't understand why it's taking so long and i go because this
27:16
long and i go because this
27:16
long and i go because this isn't just like that right and uh
27:19
isn't just like that right and uh
27:19
isn't just like that right and uh you can be patient it's not simple let
27:22
you can be patient it's not simple let
27:22
you can be patient it's not simple let me throw out a question to you then
27:24
me throw out a question to you then
27:24
me throw out a question to you then because
27:24
because
27:24
because you think of a question when we were
27:26
you think of a question when we were
27:26
you think of a question when we were talking there what do you think and and
27:28
talking there what do you think and and
27:28
talking there what do you think and and let's talk about how this relates to
27:30
let's talk about how this relates to
27:30
let's talk about how this relates to code quality right what do you think the
27:32
code quality right what do you think the
27:32
code quality right what do you think the difference between
27:33
difference between
27:33
difference between the sort of the generalist and i always
27:35
the sort of the generalist and i always
27:35
the sort of the generalist and i always consider myself a generalist
27:36
consider myself a generalist
27:36
consider myself a generalist a an end-to-end developer a full stack
27:40
a an end-to-end developer a full stack
27:40
a an end-to-end developer a full stack of oh we've had that conversation
27:42
of oh we've had that conversation
27:42
of oh we've had that conversation i know right but how does how does
27:45
i know right but how does how does
27:45
i know right but how does how does quality fit in
27:46
quality fit in
27:46
quality fit in uh to the to that uh conversation about
27:49
uh to the to that uh conversation about
27:49
uh to the to that uh conversation about sort of the generalist versus the
27:51
sort of the generalist versus the
27:51
sort of the generalist versus the specialist
27:51
specialist
27:51
specialist and is there still a place for a
27:53
and is there still a place for a
27:53
and is there still a place for a specialist you know in software
27:55
specialist you know in software
27:55
specialist you know in software companies what do you think about that
27:56
companies what do you think about that
27:56
companies what do you think about that i'm curious
27:57
i'm curious
27:57
i'm curious well yeah um i think yes you know and i
28:00
well yeah um i think yes you know and i
28:00
well yeah um i think yes you know and i think
28:01
think
28:01
think you know um for some reason i actually
28:04
you know um for some reason i actually
28:04
you know um for some reason i actually thought of
28:04
thought of
28:04
thought of you know somebody i was in a
28:05
you know somebody i was in a
28:05
you know somebody i was in a relationship with and she was a nurse
28:07
relationship with and she was a nurse
28:08
relationship with and she was a nurse and um but she was whatever the next
28:11
and um but she was whatever the next
28:11
and um but she was whatever the next level highest higher than a nurse was
28:13
level highest higher than a nurse was
28:13
level highest higher than a nurse was right so she taught other nurses
28:15
right so she taught other nurses
28:15
right so she taught other nurses right so every time a new drug would
28:17
right so every time a new drug would
28:17
right so every time a new drug would come on the market she would teach them
28:18
come on the market she would teach them
28:18
come on the market she would teach them how to do it and
28:19
how to do it and
28:19
how to do it and administer it and all that kind of stuff
28:20
administer it and all that kind of stuff
28:20
administer it and all that kind of stuff and that's what she mainly did
28:22
and that's what she mainly did
28:22
and that's what she mainly did and so you know if you ask me that
28:26
and so you know if you ask me that
28:26
and so you know if you ask me that question then just off the top of my
28:27
question then just off the top of my
28:27
question then just off the top of my head i think yeah we need specialists
28:29
head i think yeah we need specialists
28:29
head i think yeah we need specialists because those specialists need to
28:30
because those specialists need to
28:30
because those specialists need to basically mentor the other people right
28:35
basically mentor the other people right
28:35
basically mentor the other people right so they can become specialists the
28:37
so they can become specialists the
28:37
so they can become specialists the problem i will say like personally like
28:39
problem i will say like personally like
28:39
problem i will say like personally like i don't hire specialists
28:41
i don't hire specialists
28:41
i don't hire specialists right i can't hire someone on my team
28:44
right i can't hire someone on my team
28:44
right i can't hire someone on my team that let's just say only knows
28:48
that let's just say only knows
28:48
that let's just say only knows you know sort of like the c sharp the
28:50
you know sort of like the c sharp the
28:50
you know sort of like the c sharp the the back end space let's call you know
28:52
the back end space let's call you know
28:52
the back end space let's call you know whatever
28:53
whatever
28:53
whatever the server right i need people that know
28:56
the server right i need people that know
28:56
the server right i need people that know everything right and
28:58
everything right and
28:58
everything right and and i think it used to be you know you
28:59
and i think it used to be you know you
28:59
and i think it used to be you know you hired that person that was a
29:02
hired that person that was a
29:02
hired that person that was a back-end developer you hired a front-end
29:04
back-end developer you hired a front-end
29:04
back-end developer you hired a front-end developer and some organizations do
29:06
developer and some organizations do
29:06
developer and some organizations do right i guess probably plenty of
29:08
right i guess probably plenty of
29:08
right i guess probably plenty of organizations that do but i don't
29:09
organizations that do but i don't
29:09
organizations that do but i don't right my organization and most of the
29:11
right my organization and most of the
29:11
right my organization and most of the things i tend to see or everybody wants
29:12
things i tend to see or everybody wants
29:12
things i tend to see or everybody wants somebody that knows all this stuff
29:14
somebody that knows all this stuff
29:14
somebody that knows all this stuff and maybe that's at the heart of the
29:16
and maybe that's at the heart of the
29:16
and maybe that's at the heart of the problem that that's maybe why we don't
29:17
problem that that's maybe why we don't
29:17
problem that that's maybe why we don't have
29:19
have
29:19
have we would have more quality if we had
29:20
we would have more quality if we had
29:20
we would have more quality if we had more specialists but
29:22
more specialists but
29:22
more specialists but i i think it's um
29:25
i i think it's um
29:25
i i think it's um it's sort of like a problem in the
29:27
it's sort of like a problem in the
29:27
it's sort of like a problem in the industry right so i do try to look for
29:29
industry right so i do try to look for
29:29
industry right so i do try to look for people that have
29:31
people that have
29:31
people that have a i wouldn't call it a specialist but
29:32
a i wouldn't call it a specialist but
29:32
a i wouldn't call it a specialist but like a strength
29:35
like a strength
29:35
like a strength uh where you you are a full stack
29:38
uh where you you are a full stack
29:38
uh where you you are a full stack developer if we want to call that or a
29:40
developer if we want to call that or a
29:40
developer if we want to call that or a generalist
29:41
generalist
29:41
generalist but you're really good at a certain
29:44
but you're really good at a certain
29:44
but you're really good at a certain aspect of the job
29:45
aspect of the job
29:45
aspect of the job right if i can get a team that has you
29:48
right if i can get a team that has you
29:48
right if i can get a team that has you know four people and each one of them
29:50
know four people and each one of them
29:50
know four people and each one of them has like a different skill
29:52
has like a different skill
29:52
has like a different skill i think that's where my quality is going
29:53
i think that's where my quality is going
29:54
i think that's where my quality is going to really start to go up
29:55
to really start to go up
29:55
to really start to go up that's where we have that one person to
29:57
that's where we have that one person to
29:57
that's where we have that one person to sort of keep an eye on a certain aspect
29:59
sort of keep an eye on a certain aspect
29:59
sort of keep an eye on a certain aspect of the software
30:00
of the software
30:00
of the software watch the quality help people through
30:02
watch the quality help people through
30:02
watch the quality help people through problems
30:03
problems
30:03
problems so and so is really good at um
30:07
so and so is really good at um
30:07
so and so is really good at um you know performance right and one
30:09
you know performance right and one
30:09
you know performance right and one person's really good at
30:11
person's really good at
30:11
person's really good at um you know patterns and yeah i don't
30:14
um you know patterns and yeah i don't
30:14
um you know patterns and yeah i don't you trying to think i'll stop my head
30:15
you trying to think i'll stop my head
30:16
you trying to think i'll stop my head but you know that's one way i think to
30:17
but you know that's one way i think to
30:18
but you know that's one way i think to influence quality is to have people on
30:19
influence quality is to have people on
30:19
influence quality is to have people on the team that
30:20
the team that
30:20
the team that do have strengths i guess yeah and i i
30:23
do have strengths i guess yeah and i i
30:23
do have strengths i guess yeah and i i think i didn't
30:24
think i didn't
30:24
think i didn't understand what you meant by specialists
30:26
understand what you meant by specialists
30:26
understand what you meant by specialists i thought you meant specialists as being
30:27
i thought you meant specialists as being
30:27
i thought you meant specialists as being like a
30:28
like a
30:28
like a professional developer as opposed to a
30:30
professional developer as opposed to a
30:30
professional developer as opposed to a nine-to-five developer
30:31
nine-to-five developer
30:31
nine-to-five developer so sorry i i didn't understand but but
30:33
so sorry i i didn't understand but but
30:34
so sorry i i didn't understand but but you're right and
30:35
you're right and
30:35
you're right and i think um i think some teams need
30:37
i think um i think some teams need
30:38
i think um i think some teams need specialists right that
30:39
specialists right that
30:39
specialists right that for really like you you want a
30:41
for really like you you want a
30:41
for really like you you want a specialist for security
30:43
specialist for security
30:43
specialist for security right you need some somebody that knows
30:45
right you need some somebody that knows
30:45
right you need some somebody that knows everything about security right you need
30:47
everything about security right you need
30:47
everything about security right you need a specialist for databases right because
30:50
a specialist for databases right because
30:50
a specialist for databases right because you know the worst databases i've ever
30:51
you know the worst databases i've ever
30:51
you know the worst databases i've ever seen including the story i told you a
30:53
seen including the story i told you a
30:53
seen including the story i told you a little bit ago was written by developers
30:55
little bit ago was written by developers
30:55
little bit ago was written by developers you know and um
31:00
and but you know while you were saying
31:03
and but you know while you were saying
31:03
and but you know while you were saying that you know
31:04
that you know
31:04
that you know something that hit my head that is super
31:05
something that hit my head that is super
31:06
something that hit my head that is super important which i don't see companies do
31:07
important which i don't see companies do
31:07
important which i don't see companies do enough including
31:08
enough including
31:08
enough including the it team i work on now because my
31:10
the it team i work on now because my
31:10
the it team i work on now because my current job right now i work
31:12
current job right now i work
31:12
current job right now i work in an i.t team like you and um
31:16
in an i.t team like you and um
31:16
in an i.t team like you and um it's super important if you hire a
31:18
it's super important if you hire a
31:18
it's super important if you hire a specialist like as
31:19
specialist like as
31:19
specialist like as you know security or data like you were
31:22
you know security or data like you were
31:22
you know security or data like you were talking about
31:23
talking about
31:23
talking about is to make sure they teach the other
31:25
is to make sure they teach the other
31:25
is to make sure they teach the other people on the team
31:27
people on the team
31:27
people on the team right um so at least they know what's
31:29
right um so at least they know what's
31:29
right um so at least they know what's going on and maybe can step in to help
31:30
going on and maybe can step in to help
31:30
going on and maybe can step in to help or step in when
31:32
or step in when
31:32
or step in when they get covered and they can't come to
31:33
they get covered and they can't come to
31:33
they get covered and they can't come to work right and
31:35
work right and
31:35
work right and i've seen too many teams including the
31:38
i've seen too many teams including the
31:38
i've seen too many teams including the one i'm on
31:39
one i'm on
31:39
one i'm on that if somebody's on on sick on
31:41
that if somebody's on on sick on
31:41
that if somebody's on on sick on vacation it doesn't get done
31:43
vacation it doesn't get done
31:43
vacation it doesn't get done you know and and that's not the way to
31:45
you know and and that's not the way to
31:46
you know and and that's not the way to run software even
31:47
run software even
31:47
run software even in an i.t department you know
31:50
in an i.t department you know
31:50
in an i.t department you know yeah that's a recipe for trouble right
31:52
yeah that's a recipe for trouble right
31:52
yeah that's a recipe for trouble right yeah yeah
31:53
yeah yeah
31:53
yeah yeah single point of failure is what we're
31:55
single point of failure is what we're
31:55
single point of failure is what we're talking about there
31:56
talking about there
31:56
talking about there having a single failure is a is a you
31:59
having a single failure is a is a you
31:59
having a single failure is a is a you know as a
32:01
know as a
32:01
know as a is a problem just waiting to happen
32:03
is a problem just waiting to happen
32:03
is a problem just waiting to happen sooner or later
32:04
sooner or later
32:04
sooner or later you know it's going to be on uh on there
32:07
you know it's going to be on uh on there
32:07
you know it's going to be on uh on there but um
32:08
but um
32:08
but um you know i think that um so that that's
32:11
you know i think that um so that that's
32:11
you know i think that um so that that's one way to have
32:12
one way to have
32:12
one way to have you know good code quality is to have
32:13
you know good code quality is to have
32:13
you know good code quality is to have people they're experts i mean i think
32:14
people they're experts i mean i think
32:14
people they're experts i mean i think another great thing is
32:16
another great thing is
32:16
another great thing is is you know code reviews right yeah
32:19
is you know code reviews right yeah
32:19
is you know code reviews right yeah and uh you know one of the questions
32:21
and uh you know one of the questions
32:21
and uh you know one of the questions i've been getting asked lately about
32:22
i've been getting asked lately about
32:22
i've been getting asked lately about code reviews
32:23
code reviews
32:23
code reviews people will say well how should we do a
32:26
people will say well how should we do a
32:26
people will say well how should we do a code review
32:27
code review
32:27
code review should we use the sort of the pull
32:29
should we use the sort of the pull
32:29
should we use the sort of the pull request experience
32:31
request experience
32:31
request experience should we have a one-on-one teams
32:33
should we have a one-on-one teams
32:33
should we have a one-on-one teams meeting and do like
32:34
meeting and do like
32:34
meeting and do like you know sort of like a pair thing
32:36
you know sort of like a pair thing
32:36
you know sort of like a pair thing somebody said the other day you know
32:37
somebody said the other day you know
32:37
somebody said the other day you know remember
32:38
remember
32:38
remember at this other company there used to be
32:39
at this other company there used to be
32:39
at this other company there used to be these you know things where you get five
32:41
these you know things where you get five
32:41
these you know things where you get five people in a conference room
32:43
people in a conference room
32:43
people in a conference room and that would be the code review and
32:44
and that would be the code review and
32:44
and that would be the code review and people would really just like look at it
32:46
people would really just like look at it
32:46
people would really just like look at it on the board and the whole team would
32:47
on the board and the whole team would
32:47
on the board and the whole team would kind of beat it up
32:49
kind of beat it up
32:49
kind of beat it up and i said yes yes yes and yes right
32:52
and i said yes yes yes and yes right
32:52
and i said yes yes yes and yes right like
32:53
like
32:53
like what way works for your team but just do
32:55
what way works for your team but just do
32:55
what way works for your team but just do review like the
32:57
review like the
32:57
review like the the it's not the tool that's the most
32:59
the it's not the tool that's the most
32:59
the it's not the tool that's the most important part right it's the fact that
33:01
important part right it's the fact that
33:01
important part right it's the fact that we're having people
33:02
we're having people
33:02
we're having people more eyes yeah right yes on code
33:06
more eyes yeah right yes on code
33:06
more eyes yeah right yes on code uh and um
33:09
uh and um
33:09
uh and um and you know i as people say like well
33:11
and you know i as people say like well
33:11
and you know i as people say like well what are you looking for in a code
33:12
what are you looking for in a code
33:12
what are you looking for in a code review right and
33:13
review right and
33:13
review right and to me in a code review it's often hard
33:16
to me in a code review it's often hard
33:16
to me in a code review it's often hard for people to know
33:18
for people to know
33:18
for people to know if the code is gonna solve the problem
33:21
if the code is gonna solve the problem
33:21
if the code is gonna solve the problem right uh and we have unit tests for that
33:24
right uh and we have unit tests for that
33:24
right uh and we have unit tests for that right we have
33:26
right we have
33:26
right we have you know i i tend to assume usually when
33:29
you know i i tend to assume usually when
33:29
you know i i tend to assume usually when someone brings me the code i kind of
33:31
someone brings me the code i kind of
33:32
someone brings me the code i kind of i'm at the starting point where i'm
33:33
i'm at the starting point where i'm
33:33
i'm at the starting point where i'm assuming it does what it's supposed to
33:35
assuming it does what it's supposed to
33:35
assuming it does what it's supposed to do
33:35
do
33:36
do right right but looking at it from a
33:37
right right but looking at it from a
33:37
right right but looking at it from a quality perspective right to me code
33:39
quality perspective right to me code
33:39
quality perspective right to me code review like that's the main thing it's
33:41
review like that's the main thing it's
33:41
review like that's the main thing it's like the quality right
33:42
like the quality right
33:42
like the quality right and we're looking at you know is it
33:44
and we're looking at you know is it
33:44
and we're looking at you know is it self-documenting right is it readable
33:46
self-documenting right is it readable
33:46
self-documenting right is it readable code
33:47
code
33:47
code is it maintainable code uh does it
33:49
is it maintainable code uh does it
33:49
is it maintainable code uh does it follow our standards
33:51
follow our standards
33:51
follow our standards right i'm a big proponent of standards
33:55
right i'm a big proponent of standards
33:55
right i'm a big proponent of standards organization i introduce standards to
33:57
organization i introduce standards to
33:57
organization i introduce standards to the where i work
33:59
the where i work
33:59
the where i work and i think there was a lot of
34:00
and i think there was a lot of
34:00
and i think there was a lot of apprehension from developers hearing
34:02
apprehension from developers hearing
34:02
apprehension from developers hearing that oh god standards
34:05
that oh god standards
34:05
that oh god standards this guy going to make us do right uh
34:09
this guy going to make us do right uh
34:09
this guy going to make us do right uh you know we're going to have to change
34:10
you know we're going to have to change
34:10
you know we're going to have to change the way we write software in ways that
34:12
the way we write software in ways that
34:12
the way we write software in ways that we don't like you know
34:12
we don't like you know
34:12
we don't like you know that can be a problem so i think it's
34:14
that can be a problem so i think it's
34:14
that can be a problem so i think it's really important to have standards that
34:16
really important to have standards that
34:16
really important to have standards that are
34:17
are
34:17
are you know sort of flexible but what are
34:19
you know sort of flexible but what are
34:19
you know sort of flexible but what are the standards designed to do what is the
34:21
the standards designed to do what is the
34:21
the standards designed to do what is the goal of the standards in our case
34:23
goal of the standards in our case
34:23
goal of the standards in our case and the standards are designed towards
34:26
and the standards are designed towards
34:26
and the standards are designed towards again going back to maintainability and
34:28
again going back to maintainability and
34:28
again going back to maintainability and quality right
34:29
quality right
34:29
quality right right and and not being you know super
34:33
right and and not being you know super
34:33
right and and not being you know super um it's not about bit by bit you know
34:35
um it's not about bit by bit you know
34:36
um it's not about bit by bit you know what
34:36
what
34:36
what the code you know we're not talking
34:37
the code you know we're not talking
34:37
the code you know we're not talking about that kind of level standard but
34:39
about that kind of level standard but
34:39
about that kind of level standard but big picture
34:40
big picture
34:40
big picture standard for you know best practices and
34:42
standard for you know best practices and
34:42
standard for you know best practices and so uh
34:43
so uh
34:43
so uh to me like an advantage of quality code
34:47
to me like an advantage of quality code
34:47
to me like an advantage of quality code right you know let's sell this let's
34:49
right you know let's sell this let's
34:49
right you know let's sell this let's sell it first why is
34:50
sell it first why is
34:50
sell it first why is quality important because if people
34:53
quality important because if people
34:53
quality important because if people don't buy in
34:54
don't buy in
34:54
don't buy in goes gosh i feel like i talk in circles
34:56
goes gosh i feel like i talk in circles
34:56
goes gosh i feel like i talk in circles right but
34:58
right but
34:58
right but culture right if people don't understand
35:00
culture right if people don't understand
35:00
culture right if people don't understand the reason for the quality
35:01
the reason for the quality
35:01
the reason for the quality we could talk about ways to have quality
35:03
we could talk about ways to have quality
35:03
we could talk about ways to have quality all we want right
35:05
all we want right
35:05
all we want right it's why does it matter to me
35:08
it's why does it matter to me
35:08
it's why does it matter to me and so when i think about quality and
35:11
and so when i think about quality and
35:11
and so when i think about quality and standards you know what i think about
35:12
standards you know what i think about
35:12
standards you know what i think about is dave you built this software that's
35:14
is dave you built this software that's
35:14
is dave you built this software that's great you and your team
35:16
great you and your team
35:16
great you and your team and six months later you're off on a
35:18
and six months later you're off on a
35:18
and six months later you're off on a different project
35:20
different project
35:20
different project no company or not whatever it doesn't
35:22
no company or not whatever it doesn't
35:22
no company or not whatever it doesn't matter right and i'm coming on board
35:24
matter right and i'm coming on board
35:24
matter right and i'm coming on board and i want to be able to go into that
35:26
and i want to be able to go into that
35:26
and i want to be able to go into that code and be like
35:27
code and be like
35:27
code and be like i get it i get this code and why because
35:31
i get it i get this code and why because
35:31
i get it i get this code and why because we have certain standards we find right
35:33
we have certain standards we find right
35:33
we have certain standards we find right we sort of build software in similar
35:35
we sort of build software in similar
35:35
we sort of build software in similar ways we don't dictate a line of
35:37
ways we don't dictate a line of
35:37
ways we don't dictate a line of line of code but i can go and i can jump
35:39
line of code but i can go and i can jump
35:39
line of code but i can go and i can jump in because we use certain
35:40
in because we use certain
35:40
in because we use certain reference architectures if you will
35:43
reference architectures if you will
35:43
reference architectures if you will right and
35:44
right and
35:44
right and and so when i look at code reviews a lot
35:46
and so when i look at code reviews a lot
35:46
and so when i look at code reviews a lot of times i'm looking to like are you
35:48
of times i'm looking to like are you
35:48
of times i'm looking to like are you are you building this in a way that will
35:51
are you building this in a way that will
35:51
are you building this in a way that will make sense
35:52
make sense
35:52
make sense to the person who comes after you right
35:55
to the person who comes after you right
35:55
to the person who comes after you right right it doesn't have to follow a
35:56
right it doesn't have to follow a
35:56
right it doesn't have to follow a standard to do that right there's a lot
35:57
standard to do that right there's a lot
35:57
standard to do that right there's a lot of ways to do that
35:59
of ways to do that
35:59
of ways to do that but to me you know a sure sign of poor
36:01
but to me you know a sure sign of poor
36:01
but to me you know a sure sign of poor code quality is if you come in for a
36:03
code quality is if you come in for a
36:03
code quality is if you come in for a code review and i look at it i'm like
36:05
code review and i look at it i'm like
36:05
code review and i look at it i'm like what is it yeah i need to explain this
36:09
what is it yeah i need to explain this
36:09
what is it yeah i need to explain this to me
36:09
to me
36:09
to me yeah right we've got a problem right off
36:11
yeah right we've got a problem right off
36:12
yeah right we've got a problem right off the bat
36:12
the bat
36:12
the bat yeah and that's you know while you're
36:14
yeah and that's you know while you're
36:14
yeah and that's you know while you're talking about that it reminds me of
36:17
talking about that it reminds me of
36:17
talking about that it reminds me of a story i'll share but you know it's
36:19
a story i'll share but you know it's
36:19
a story i'll share but you know it's it's
36:20
it's
36:20
it's you know it's these kind of things that
36:22
you know it's these kind of things that
36:22
you know it's these kind of things that make like you're saying make
36:24
make like you're saying make
36:24
make like you're saying make uh changes easier right and so
36:27
uh changes easier right and so
36:27
uh changes easier right and so um you know the uh arc the the
36:30
um you know the uh arc the the
36:30
um you know the uh arc the the the project i worked at i architect
36:32
the project i worked at i architect
36:32
the project i worked at i architect that's in production
36:33
that's in production
36:33
that's in production uh almost a year now um i architected
36:37
uh almost a year now um i architected
36:37
uh almost a year now um i architected from the ground up
36:38
from the ground up
36:38
from the ground up and it's very successful that the users
36:40
and it's very successful that the users
36:40
and it's very successful that the users love it the internal users love it
36:42
love it the internal users love it
36:42
love it the internal users love it and um it's now they're thinking about
36:44
and um it's now they're thinking about
36:44
and um it's now they're thinking about maybe bringing on other companies into
36:46
maybe bringing on other companies into
36:46
maybe bringing on other companies into the same
36:47
the same
36:47
the same you know code you know project and um
36:50
you know code you know project and um
36:50
you know code you know project and um but you know one of the things i really
36:52
but you know one of the things i really
36:52
but you know one of the things i really appreciated by from one of my team
36:54
appreciated by from one of my team
36:54
appreciated by from one of my team members one
36:55
members one
36:55
members one one of them who i mentor and i hope
36:57
one of them who i mentor and i hope
36:57
one of them who i mentor and i hope she's on on today so she can
37:00
she's on on today so she can
37:00
she's on on today so she can see me talking about her but you know
37:02
see me talking about her but you know
37:02
see me talking about her but you know one of the things um
37:04
one of the things um
37:04
one of the things um she said to me once was you know after
37:07
she said to me once was you know after
37:07
she said to me once was you know after because she helped me with the initial
37:09
because she helped me with the initial
37:09
because she helped me with the initial coding and then when it came time to do
37:11
coding and then when it came time to do
37:11
coding and then when it came time to do version you know two
37:12
version you know two
37:12
version you know two um you know she she told me dave it is
37:16
um you know she she told me dave it is
37:16
um you know she she told me dave it is so
37:16
so
37:16
so easy to make changes in your code you
37:19
easy to make changes in your code you
37:19
easy to make changes in your code you know
37:20
know
37:20
know i why doesn't everybody do it like this
37:23
i why doesn't everybody do it like this
37:23
i why doesn't everybody do it like this and i go i don't know
37:26
and that's what that's what that is
37:28
and that's what that's what that is
37:28
and that's what that's what that is trying to get to well
37:29
trying to get to well
37:29
trying to get to well as a software developer you must have
37:31
as a software developer you must have
37:31
as a software developer you must have just been like because
37:33
just been like because
37:33
just been like because let's be i try to be clear i i you know
37:36
let's be i try to be clear i i you know
37:36
let's be i try to be clear i i you know i kind of cut you off a little bit but
37:38
i kind of cut you off a little bit but
37:38
i kind of cut you off a little bit but i try to be clear with people that i
37:40
i try to be clear with people that i
37:40
i try to be clear with people that i don't always know what i'm doing
37:42
don't always know what i'm doing
37:42
don't always know what i'm doing people say well andy i don't know you
37:44
people say well andy i don't know you
37:44
people say well andy i don't know you know you're on the you go on
37:45
know you're on the you go on
37:46
know you're on the you go on shows you know you must know what you're
37:47
shows you know you must know what you're
37:47
shows you know you must know what you're doing well no i don't right
37:49
doing well no i don't right
37:49
doing well no i don't right and so if i was to get that compliment
37:51
and so if i was to get that compliment
37:51
and so if i was to get that compliment you got
37:52
you got
37:52
you got you know the way i think that's so great
37:53
you know the way i think that's so great
37:54
you know the way i think that's so great is because when you're writing it i
37:55
is because when you're writing it i
37:55
is because when you're writing it i could be wrong
37:56
could be wrong
37:56
could be wrong but i'm it was part of you that says i i
37:59
but i'm it was part of you that says i i
37:59
but i'm it was part of you that says i i hope this is really readable like i
38:01
hope this is really readable like i
38:01
hope this is really readable like i think i'm building this in the right way
38:03
think i'm building this in the right way
38:03
think i'm building this in the right way right but we won't know for sure until
38:06
right but we won't know for sure until
38:06
right but we won't know for sure until someone comes in later for v2
38:10
someone comes in later for v2
38:10
someone comes in later for v2 right and you want that validation
38:14
how awesome is that it's and you know i
38:17
how awesome is that it's and you know i
38:17
how awesome is that it's and you know i don't get that a lot
38:17
don't get that a lot
38:18
don't get that a lot and so it was really cool you know that
38:20
and so it was really cool you know that
38:20
and so it was really cool you know that she said that and it
38:21
she said that and it
38:21
she said that and it and it made you know all the fighting i
38:23
and it made you know all the fighting i
38:24
and it made you know all the fighting i do for code quality and
38:25
do for code quality and
38:25
do for code quality and standards and all that stuff worth it
38:27
standards and all that stuff worth it
38:27
standards and all that stuff worth it even if i get only one of those every
38:28
even if i get only one of those every
38:28
even if i get only one of those every five years i'm okay
38:30
five years i'm okay
38:30
five years i'm okay right it shows i'm doing right you know
38:32
right it shows i'm doing right you know
38:32
right it shows i'm doing right you know and you know and
38:33
and you know and
38:33
and you know and you know the the patterns i use it's the
38:35
you know the the patterns i use it's the
38:35
you know the the patterns i use it's the same ones i've been using pretty much
38:37
same ones i've been using pretty much
38:37
same ones i've been using pretty much for 20 years
38:38
for 20 years
38:38
for 20 years you know i i do this just i don't even
38:41
you know i i do this just i don't even
38:41
you know i i do this just i don't even think about it
38:42
think about it
38:42
think about it right it just comes out of me like that
38:44
right it just comes out of me like that
38:44
right it just comes out of me like that way and um
38:47
way and um
38:47
way and um it's hard for me to code bad badly now
38:50
it's hard for me to code bad badly now
38:50
it's hard for me to code bad badly now you know when i'm on projects and i'm
38:51
you know when i'm on projects and i'm
38:51
you know when i'm on projects and i'm forced to code bad
38:53
forced to code bad
38:53
forced to code bad right i go insane you know and i
38:57
right i go insane you know and i
38:57
right i go insane you know and i something happens like me leaving or
38:58
something happens like me leaving or
38:58
something happens like me leaving or something like that right
39:00
something like that right
39:00
something like that right and um um but i do want to circle back
39:03
and um um but i do want to circle back
39:03
and um um but i do want to circle back real quick to something you were talking
39:04
real quick to something you were talking
39:04
real quick to something you were talking about the
39:05
about the
39:05
about the uh uh the specialist and and that is
39:09
uh uh the specialist and and that is
39:09
uh uh the specialist and and that is you know another reason to have the
39:11
you know another reason to have the
39:11
you know another reason to have the specialist train
39:12
specialist train
39:12
specialist train other people and then the specialists
39:14
other people and then the specialists
39:14
other people and then the specialists will learn other things too
39:15
will learn other things too
39:15
will learn other things too right in this process is that i've seen
39:18
right in this process is that i've seen
39:18
right in this process is that i've seen in many companies including
39:20
in many companies including
39:20
in many companies including me leave companies because we get
39:22
me leave companies because we get
39:22
me leave companies because we get pigeonholed into one thing
39:25
pigeonholed into one thing
39:25
pigeonholed into one thing and after a couple versions come out we
39:27
and after a couple versions come out we
39:27
and after a couple versions come out we go well i'm not learning anything new
39:29
go well i'm not learning anything new
39:29
go well i'm not learning anything new i'm going to go to a different company
39:30
i'm going to go to a different company
39:30
i'm going to go to a different company and now you've lost
39:31
and now you've lost
39:32
and now you've lost that entire brain trust which is worth a
39:34
that entire brain trust which is worth a
39:34
that entire brain trust which is worth a lot of money
39:35
lot of money
39:35
lot of money right and it's going to take a lot of
39:37
right and it's going to take a lot of
39:37
right and it's going to take a lot of money to get somebody up
39:38
money to get somebody up
39:38
money to get somebody up back up into that speed right and so
39:41
back up into that speed right and so
39:41
back up into that speed right and so that's why
39:42
that's why
39:42
that's why i think it's important for to have
39:44
i think it's important for to have
39:44
i think it's important for to have people like that and then use them
39:45
people like that and then use them
39:45
people like that and then use them wisely
39:47
wisely
39:47
wisely right and that's something i struggle
39:48
right and that's something i struggle
39:48
right and that's something i struggle with a lot in my contracts is
39:51
with a lot in my contracts is
39:51
with a lot in my contracts is you know i i plan to write an article
39:53
you know i i plan to write an article
39:53
you know i i plan to write an article about this maybe but
39:54
about this maybe but
39:54
about this maybe but um you know i just don't understand why
39:56
um you know i just don't understand why
39:56
um you know i just don't understand why people hire donna dave
39:58
people hire donna dave
39:58
people hire donna dave and then block me at every corner of
40:01
and then block me at every corner of
40:01
and then block me at every corner of implementing
40:02
implementing
40:02
implementing standards and quality and good
40:03
standards and quality and good
40:04
standards and quality and good architecture and
40:05
architecture and
40:05
architecture and i just don't understand why why are you
40:07
i just don't understand why why are you
40:07
i just don't understand why why are you paying me then
40:09
paying me then
40:09
paying me then understand why yeah right i mean i i
40:12
understand why yeah right i mean i i
40:12
understand why yeah right i mean i i don't really but
40:13
don't really but
40:13
don't really but i mean it goes back to what i said
40:14
i mean it goes back to what i said
40:14
i mean it goes back to what i said earlier about culture right
40:16
earlier about culture right
40:16
earlier about culture right they they think they want net dave
40:19
they they think they want net dave
40:19
they they think they want net dave right in their heart they
40:22
right in their heart they
40:22
right in their heart they know they want you know and whether it's
40:25
know they want you know and whether it's
40:25
know they want you know and whether it's you or someone else but they know they
40:27
you or someone else but they know they
40:27
you or someone else but they know they want the quality they want the standards
40:29
want the quality they want the standards
40:29
want the quality they want the standards they want the specialist to be able to
40:31
they want the specialist to be able to
40:31
they want the specialist to be able to do their thing but the culture isn't
40:33
do their thing but the culture isn't
40:33
do their thing but the culture isn't really there
40:34
really there
40:34
really there to allow them right that because they're
40:37
to allow them right that because they're
40:37
to allow them right that because they're going to give
40:37
going to give
40:38
going to give in to external pressure that person who
40:39
in to external pressure that person who
40:39
in to external pressure that person who hired you i'm sure
40:41
hired you i'm sure
40:41
hired you i'm sure you know came back to the team like this
40:43
you know came back to the team like this
40:43
you know came back to the team like this is going to be great he's going to show
40:44
is going to be great he's going to show
40:44
is going to be great he's going to show us great ways to do things
40:46
us great ways to do things
40:46
us great ways to do things and what happens a month later their
40:47
and what happens a month later their
40:48
and what happens a month later their boss comes in and says hey listen
40:50
boss comes in and says hey listen
40:50
boss comes in and says hey listen we're making a change and i know we said
40:53
we're making a change and i know we said
40:53
we're making a change and i know we said you had
40:53
you had
40:54
you had nine months to do this but you have
40:55
nine months to do this but you have
40:55
nine months to do this but you have seven or whatever the situation is you
40:58
seven or whatever the situation is you
40:58
seven or whatever the situation is you know we've heard all this
40:59
know we've heard all this
40:59
know we've heard all this all the stories before and in comes the
41:02
all the stories before and in comes the
41:02
all the stories before and in comes the pressure
41:03
pressure
41:03
pressure right and so i i think
41:06
right and so i i think
41:06
right and so i i think it's it's his organizations you know
41:08
it's it's his organizations you know
41:08
it's it's his organizations you know where i hear about
41:10
where i hear about
41:10
where i hear about uh anecdotally where people are seem to
41:12
uh anecdotally where people are seem to
41:12
uh anecdotally where people are seem to be doing things really really well
41:14
be doing things really really well
41:14
be doing things really really well right um and my company's getting there
41:17
right um and my company's getting there
41:17
right um and my company's getting there i think we do things
41:18
i think we do things
41:18
i think we do things pretty well like i wouldn't we're not
41:20
pretty well like i wouldn't we're not
41:20
pretty well like i wouldn't we're not we're not done and we never will be
41:22
we're not done and we never will be
41:22
we're not done and we never will be right but
41:22
right but
41:22
right but yeah no one's perfect we're actively
41:25
yeah no one's perfect we're actively
41:25
yeah no one's perfect we're actively working
41:26
working
41:26
working on it right opposed to ignoring the
41:28
on it right opposed to ignoring the
41:28
on it right opposed to ignoring the problem we're always trying to have
41:30
problem we're always trying to have
41:30
problem we're always trying to have incremental
41:30
incremental
41:30
incremental you know small changes but at these
41:32
you know small changes but at these
41:32
you know small changes but at these places where i think
41:34
places where i think
41:34
places where i think i hear really great stories um they tend
41:37
i hear really great stories um they tend
41:37
i hear really great stories um they tend to be young
41:38
to be young
41:38
to be young organizations and i don't mean young in
41:40
organizations and i don't mean young in
41:40
organizations and i don't mean young in age but they don't have a lot of um
41:43
age but they don't have a lot of um
41:43
age but they don't have a lot of um baggage in their software that's coming
41:45
baggage in their software that's coming
41:45
baggage in their software that's coming along right right at least on their team
41:47
along right right at least on their team
41:47
along right right at least on their team or in their you know in that department
41:48
or in their you know in that department
41:48
or in their you know in that department whatever that is right
41:50
whatever that is right
41:50
whatever that is right um and you know they're probably focused
41:52
um and you know they're probably focused
41:52
um and you know they're probably focused in what they do
41:55
in what they do
41:55
in what they do and they have a good culture whereas the
41:57
and they have a good culture whereas the
41:57
and they have a good culture whereas the people are buying into it the people
41:58
people are buying into it the people
41:58
people are buying into it the people that are hiring people
42:00
that are hiring people
42:00
that are hiring people everybody along the step of the way is
42:01
everybody along the step of the way is
42:01
everybody along the step of the way is bought into like a certain culture
42:03
bought into like a certain culture
42:03
bought into like a certain culture and when you work at an organization
42:05
and when you work at an organization
42:05
and when you work at an organization like mine
42:07
like mine
42:07
like mine uh and i'm not complaining right we've
42:08
uh and i'm not complaining right we've
42:08
uh and i'm not complaining right we've we're we make great strides i mean i
42:10
we're we make great strides i mean i
42:10
we're we make great strides i mean i really like
42:11
really like
42:11
really like you know what i do where i work but
42:13
you know what i do where i work but
42:13
you know what i do where i work but we're fighting certain battles all the
42:14
we're fighting certain battles all the
42:14
we're fighting certain battles all the time where we don't have
42:16
time where we don't have
42:16
time where we don't have like an entire department is not focused
42:19
like an entire department is not focused
42:19
like an entire department is not focused on building one piece of software we
42:21
on building one piece of software we
42:21
on building one piece of software we have
42:21
have
42:21
have right you know i don't have any hundred
42:23
right you know i don't have any hundred
42:23
right you know i don't have any hundred you know 100 apps 100 things going on at
42:25
you know 100 apps 100 things going on at
42:25
you know 100 apps 100 things going on at once
42:25
once
42:26
once right and we have legacy code and we
42:29
right and we have legacy code and we
42:29
right and we have legacy code and we have legacy
42:30
have legacy
42:30
have legacy systems and architectures and we're
42:31
systems and architectures and we're
42:31
systems and architectures and we're trying to build new things intertwined
42:33
trying to build new things intertwined
42:33
trying to build new things intertwined and stuff like that
42:34
and stuff like that
42:34
and stuff like that so it's hard it's really hard to do it
42:37
so it's hard it's really hard to do it
42:37
so it's hard it's really hard to do it in these kind of organizations
42:38
in these kind of organizations
42:38
in these kind of organizations but yeah focus on
42:42
but yeah focus on
42:42
but yeah focus on you know changing the culture is what i
42:44
you know changing the culture is what i
42:44
you know changing the culture is what i would say like focus on changing the
42:46
would say like focus on changing the
42:46
would say like focus on changing the culture
42:46
culture
42:46
culture focus on incremental changes right use
42:49
focus on incremental changes right use
42:49
focus on incremental changes right use those retrospectives use your tools that
42:51
those retrospectives use your tools that
42:51
those retrospectives use your tools that you have
42:52
you have
42:52
you have uh at your disposal developers right
42:54
uh at your disposal developers right
42:54
uh at your disposal developers right bring up these changes
42:56
bring up these changes
42:56
bring up these changes remind people speak up right and then
42:59
remind people speak up right and then
43:00
remind people speak up right and then show the benefit and try to like
43:01
show the benefit and try to like
43:01
show the benefit and try to like bring those things back and say remember
43:03
bring those things back and say remember
43:03
bring those things back and say remember that thing we did a couple months ago
43:04
that thing we did a couple months ago
43:04
that thing we did a couple months ago like see how good that's working because
43:06
like see how good that's working because
43:06
like see how good that's working because we did
43:07
we did
43:07
we did right and that's going to lead towards
43:08
right and that's going to lead towards
43:08
right and that's going to lead towards the culture starting to hear the story
43:11
the culture starting to hear the story
43:11
the culture starting to hear the story not the culture sorry you know the
43:12
not the culture sorry you know the
43:12
not the culture sorry you know the people around you start to hear the
43:13
people around you start to hear the
43:13
people around you start to hear the story
43:14
story
43:14
story and the culture starts to embrace that i
43:16
and the culture starts to embrace that i
43:16
and the culture starts to embrace that i think it's really important
43:18
think it's really important
43:18
think it's really important yeah and you know one thing that i will
43:21
yeah and you know one thing that i will
43:21
yeah and you know one thing that i will say and i
43:22
say and i
43:22
say and i you know i wrote it in an article that's
43:24
you know i wrote it in an article that's
43:24
you know i wrote it in an article that's on c-sharp my latest article on c-sharp
43:26
on c-sharp my latest article on c-sharp
43:26
on c-sharp my latest article on c-sharp corners that
43:27
corners that
43:27
corners that you know i feel very um i don't know
43:30
you know i feel very um i don't know
43:30
you know i feel very um i don't know lucky's the word but i feel very
43:31
lucky's the word but i feel very
43:32
lucky's the word but i feel very grateful
43:32
grateful
43:32
grateful that you know the early teams i was on
43:34
that you know the early teams i was on
43:34
that you know the early teams i was on when i was a beginner
43:36
when i was a beginner
43:36
when i was a beginner um not only really worked well together
43:39
um not only really worked well together
43:39
um not only really worked well together but
43:39
but
43:39
but you know did standards and did proper
43:42
you know did standards and did proper
43:42
you know did standards and did proper architecture and all these things
43:44
architecture and all these things
43:44
architecture and all these things and and building every night and you
43:46
and and building every night and you
43:46
and and building every night and you know we had to re
43:47
know we had to re
43:47
know we had to re back then we had to rebuild a machine
43:49
back then we had to rebuild a machine
43:50
back then we had to rebuild a machine from the ground up every night to do
43:51
from the ground up every night to do
43:51
from the ground up every night to do testing right you have to do that now
43:53
testing right you have to do that now
43:53
testing right you have to do that now but we had to back then
43:55
but we had to back then
43:55
but we had to back then and um and um now i'm having a brain
43:58
and um and um now i'm having a brain
43:58
and um and um now i'm having a brain fart never mind go ahead
44:00
fart never mind go ahead
44:00
fart never mind go ahead [Laughter]
44:02
[Laughter]
44:02
[Laughter] um yeah i just you know
44:05
um yeah i just you know
44:05
um yeah i just you know embrace i get i guess the you know i'm
44:08
embrace i get i guess the you know i'm
44:08
embrace i get i guess the you know i'm talking about organizational change and
44:09
talking about organizational change and
44:09
talking about organizational change and i talk about incremental
44:10
i talk about incremental
44:10
i talk about incremental i'm talking about incremental changes
44:12
i'm talking about incremental changes
44:12
i'm talking about incremental changes you're not gonna
44:14
you're not gonna
44:14
you're not gonna you're not gonna fix everything
44:16
you're not gonna fix everything
44:16
you're not gonna fix everything overnight
44:18
overnight
44:18
overnight right but you know it's developers it's
44:21
right but you know it's developers it's
44:21
right but you know it's developers it's it's upon
44:22
it's upon
44:22
it's upon you guys and when i say guys i'm talking
44:25
you guys and when i say guys i'm talking
44:25
you guys and when i say guys i'm talking about the
44:26
about the
44:26
about the gender neutral guys there you know um
44:29
gender neutral guys there you know um
44:29
gender neutral guys there you know um the youtube version of guys hey guys how
44:31
the youtube version of guys hey guys how
44:31
the youtube version of guys hey guys how are you welcome to the show
44:33
are you welcome to the show
44:33
are you welcome to the show um so it's upon you
44:36
um so it's upon you
44:36
um so it's upon you to have influence right and
44:41
try to take opportunities try to make
44:42
try to take opportunities try to make
44:42
try to take opportunities try to make opportunities if you don't have that
44:44
opportunities if you don't have that
44:44
opportunities if you don't have that culture
44:44
culture
44:44
culture if your manager your team leader whoever
44:46
if your manager your team leader whoever
44:46
if your manager your team leader whoever that is doesn't seem to embrace these
44:49
that is doesn't seem to embrace these
44:49
that is doesn't seem to embrace these things
44:50
things
44:50
things then try to educate them try
44:53
then try to educate them try
44:53
then try to educate them try to lead from the bottom up
44:56
to lead from the bottom up
44:56
to lead from the bottom up and do some things and try to make a
45:00
and do some things and try to make a
45:00
and do some things and try to make a change and try to have i have influence
45:02
change and try to have i have influence
45:02
change and try to have i have influence but
45:03
but
45:03
but the you know it's really important like
45:05
the you know it's really important like
45:06
the you know it's really important like you know
45:07
you know
45:07
you know all these things you know it's all about
45:08
all these things you know it's all about
45:08
all these things you know it's all about people and everybody working together
45:10
people and everybody working together
45:10
people and everybody working together and trying to come together and you know
45:12
and trying to come together and you know
45:12
and trying to come together and you know and
45:12
and
45:12
and the other thing you know again we talk
45:14
the other thing you know again we talk
45:14
the other thing you know again we talk about you know quality but what is what
45:15
about you know quality but what is what
45:15
about you know quality but what is what is quality define what what your
45:18
is quality define what what your
45:18
is quality define what what your definition of
45:19
definition of
45:19
definition of quality is you know yeah oh you want me
45:22
quality is you know yeah oh you want me
45:22
quality is you know yeah oh you want me to or
45:23
to or
45:23
to or well i'm just saying i didn't know what
45:24
well i'm just saying i didn't know what
45:24
well i'm just saying i didn't know what you were asking me a question about no i
45:26
you were asking me a question about no i
45:26
you were asking me a question about no i am
45:27
am
45:27
am i'm i am and i'm not you know it's like
45:29
i'm i am and i'm not you know it's like
45:29
i'm i am and i'm not you know it's like to everybody it's you know
45:30
to everybody it's you know
45:30
to everybody it's you know what uh what you know what are you
45:33
what uh what you know what are you
45:33
what uh what you know what are you looking for when you look for
45:34
looking for when you look for
45:34
looking for when you look for quality you know well you know it's a
45:38
quality you know well you know it's a
45:38
quality you know well you know it's a lot of things that you know we'll be
45:39
lot of things that you know we'll be
45:39
lot of things that you know we'll be talking about in the code quality
45:41
talking about in the code quality
45:41
talking about in the code quality conference on c-sup corner
45:42
conference on c-sup corner
45:42
conference on c-sup corner and and that is you know not only
45:44
and and that is you know not only
45:44
and and that is you know not only standards
45:46
standards
45:46
standards you know but documentation um uh proper
45:49
you know but documentation um uh proper
45:49
you know but documentation um uh proper architecture you know just not coding by
45:53
architecture you know just not coding by
45:53
architecture you know just not coding by the seat of your pants architecture
45:54
the seat of your pants architecture
45:54
the seat of your pants architecture which doesn't work
45:56
which doesn't work
45:56
which doesn't work you know proper upfront architecture
45:58
you know proper upfront architecture
45:58
you know proper upfront architecture before you even start writing code
46:01
before you even start writing code
46:01
before you even start writing code you know proper unit testing proper
46:04
you know proper unit testing proper
46:04
you know proper unit testing proper environments to test on um
46:07
environments to test on um
46:07
environments to test on um regression testing you know i could keep
46:09
regression testing you know i could keep
46:09
regression testing you know i could keep going but it's it's a
46:10
going but it's it's a
46:10
going but it's it's a it's a big animal these days of what
46:13
it's a big animal these days of what
46:13
it's a big animal these days of what really quality is right but
46:15
really quality is right but
46:15
really quality is right but the end goal is not only to make your
46:17
the end goal is not only to make your
46:17
the end goal is not only to make your users happy
46:18
users happy
46:18
users happy right and and generate money
46:22
right and and generate money
46:22
right and and generate money but also make it easier to make changes
46:25
but also make it easier to make changes
46:25
but also make it easier to make changes and
46:25
and
46:25
and and fix bugs and things like that down
46:27
and fix bugs and things like that down
46:27
and fix bugs and things like that down the road because that's
46:28
the road because that's
46:28
the road because that's really expensive right and if you can
46:30
really expensive right and if you can
46:30
really expensive right and if you can make that process
46:31
make that process
46:32
make that process better you're saving money in the end
46:35
better you're saving money in the end
46:35
better you're saving money in the end yeah you know i was thinking as you were
46:37
yeah you know i was thinking as you were
46:38
yeah you know i was thinking as you were talking about you know you're
46:39
talking about you know you're
46:39
talking about you know you're naming a list of things and i i feel
46:41
naming a list of things and i i feel
46:42
naming a list of things and i i feel like
46:43
like
46:43
like over the you know i don't know last 10
46:46
over the you know i don't know last 10
46:46
over the you know i don't know last 10 years of my you know career whatever you
46:47
years of my you know career whatever you
46:47
years of my you know career whatever you know i
46:48
know i
46:48
know i i've as i've done more speaking on
46:50
i've as i've done more speaking on
46:50
i've as i've done more speaking on certain topics you know
46:52
certain topics you know
46:52
certain topics you know uh and it started with i think um
46:54
uh and it started with i think um
46:54
uh and it started with i think um talking about uh probably like devops
46:57
talking about uh probably like devops
46:57
talking about uh probably like devops stuff and this you know years ago when i
46:58
stuff and this you know years ago when i
46:58
stuff and this you know years ago when i was
46:58
was
46:58
was starting to talk about devops and i say
47:00
starting to talk about devops and i say
47:00
starting to talk about devops and i say you know guys you have to do devops
47:02
you know guys you have to do devops
47:02
you know guys you have to do devops on day one right put the devops in
47:05
on day one right put the devops in
47:05
on day one right put the devops in is not to wait till the end right
47:09
is not to wait till the end right
47:09
is not to wait till the end right and then and also say you know source
47:11
and then and also say you know source
47:12
and then and also say you know source control well you know again
47:13
control well you know again
47:13
control well you know again people used to start writing code and
47:15
people used to start writing code and
47:15
people used to start writing code and say i'll check it in later
47:16
say i'll check it in later
47:16
say i'll check it in later but you got to do that on day one and
47:19
but you got to do that on day one and
47:19
but you got to do that on day one and then
47:19
then
47:20
then we talk about security well when do you
47:21
we talk about security well when do you
47:21
we talk about security well when do you put security in
47:23
put security in
47:23
put security in at the end well you know
47:27
at the end well you know
47:27
at the end well you know that's failure right so you got to put
47:29
that's failure right so you got to put
47:29
that's failure right so you got to put it on day one
47:30
it on day one
47:30
it on day one unit testing day one code quality or
47:33
unit testing day one code quality or
47:33
unit testing day one code quality or architecture and design day one day one
47:36
architecture and design day one day one
47:36
architecture and design day one day one is a busy day
47:37
is a busy day
47:37
is a busy day right but the point is what you're
47:40
right but the point is what you're
47:40
right but the point is what you're saying about
47:41
saying about
47:41
saying about you know getting started with these
47:42
you know getting started with these
47:42
you know getting started with these things is if you don't
47:44
things is if you don't
47:44
things is if you don't it becomes too hard to untangle later
47:47
it becomes too hard to untangle later
47:47
it becomes too hard to untangle later it's easier
47:48
it's easier
47:48
it's easier to go slow at the beginning than it is
47:50
to go slow at the beginning than it is
47:50
to go slow at the beginning than it is to go fast at the beginning
47:51
to go fast at the beginning
47:52
to go fast at the beginning you know if you go fast at the beginning
47:53
you know if you go fast at the beginning
47:53
you know if you go fast at the beginning you say oh they want that proof of
47:54
you say oh they want that proof of
47:54
you say oh they want that proof of concept
47:55
concept
47:55
concept we've all heard that story before can
47:58
we've all heard that story before can
47:58
we've all heard that story before can you just give me something i just want
47:59
you just give me something i just want
47:59
you just give me something i just want to see something
48:01
to see something
48:01
to see something well it's going to take a little while
48:04
well it's going to take a little while
48:04
well it's going to take a little while because in the beginning i want to get
48:05
because in the beginning i want to get
48:05
because in the beginning i want to get it set up right i want to focus on the
48:07
it set up right i want to focus on the
48:07
it set up right i want to focus on the architecture and the design
48:09
architecture and the design
48:09
architecture and the design what problems are we trying to solve
48:11
what problems are we trying to solve
48:11
what problems are we trying to solve what patterns do we want to use why
48:13
what patterns do we want to use why
48:13
what patterns do we want to use why what do we want to use them how is this
48:14
what do we want to use them how is this
48:14
what do we want to use them how is this thing going to work in the big picture
48:17
thing going to work in the big picture
48:17
thing going to work in the big picture and and by putting those things in on
48:20
and and by putting those things in on
48:20
and and by putting those things in on day one
48:21
day one
48:21
day one everything starts to fit into its places
48:23
everything starts to fit into its places
48:23
everything starts to fit into its places right
48:25
right
48:25
right otherwise we end up wasting a lot of
48:27
otherwise we end up wasting a lot of
48:27
otherwise we end up wasting a lot of time trying to fix things or sort of
48:28
time trying to fix things or sort of
48:28
time trying to fix things or sort of work through it like along the way when
48:30
work through it like along the way when
48:30
work through it like along the way when it gets even more complicated
48:32
it gets even more complicated
48:32
it gets even more complicated right and well a lot of companies do
48:34
right and well a lot of companies do
48:34
right and well a lot of companies do including
48:36
including
48:36
including huh i was looking at uh there's a
48:39
huh i was looking at uh there's a
48:39
huh i was looking at uh there's a comment from
48:40
comment from
48:40
comment from i guess from mahesh oh yeah yeah what
48:42
i guess from mahesh oh yeah yeah what
48:42
i guess from mahesh oh yeah yeah what does he say security performance people
48:44
does he say security performance people
48:44
does he say security performance people talk after deployment when systems get
48:47
talk after deployment when systems get
48:47
talk after deployment when systems get oh yeah right
48:48
oh yeah right
48:48
oh yeah right yeah yeah nobody wants you to slow down
48:51
yeah yeah nobody wants you to slow down
48:51
yeah yeah nobody wants you to slow down the application on day one
48:52
the application on day one
48:52
the application on day one they want you to deliver and then it
48:54
they want you to deliver and then it
48:54
they want you to deliver and then it gets hacked
48:56
gets hacked
48:56
gets hacked and then who blame why didn't you put
48:57
and then who blame why didn't you put
48:58
and then who blame why didn't you put security
48:59
security
48:59
security i worked at a i worked at a company that
49:02
i worked at a i worked at a company that
49:02
i worked at a i worked at a company that had these two architects
49:05
had these two architects
49:05
had these two architects we'll get into that but anyway you know
49:07
we'll get into that but anyway you know
49:07
we'll get into that but anyway you know in the in the product i was working on
49:09
in the in the product i was working on
49:09
in the in the product i was working on version one you know i talked to one of
49:10
version one you know i talked to one of
49:10
version one you know i talked to one of the architects
49:11
the architects
49:11
the architects i go you know we need to you know
49:13
i go you know we need to you know
49:13
i go you know we need to you know implement we need to you know talk about
49:14
implement we need to you know talk about
49:14
implement we need to you know talk about security get it into the product you
49:16
security get it into the product you
49:16
security get it into the product you know before we release it
49:17
know before we release it
49:18
know before we release it he said now we'll do it afterwards
49:20
he said now we'll do it afterwards
49:20
he said now we'll do it afterwards [Laughter]
49:23
[Laughter]
49:23
[Laughter] what planet do you live on dude you know
49:25
what planet do you live on dude you know
49:25
what planet do you live on dude you know that's not the way you do it
49:28
that's not the way you do it
49:28
that's not the way you do it well nowadays i mean you know
49:31
well nowadays i mean you know
49:31
well nowadays i mean you know [Music]
49:32
[Music]
49:32
[Music] when your company is on the news
49:34
when your company is on the news
49:34
when your company is on the news [Laughter]
49:37
[Laughter]
49:37
[Laughter] um there's a lot of there's a lot of
49:39
um there's a lot of there's a lot of
49:39
um there's a lot of there's a lot of mistakes and software that we can
49:41
mistakes and software that we can
49:41
mistakes and software that we can we can get around if we can be creative
49:44
we can get around if we can be creative
49:44
we can get around if we can be creative and
49:44
and
49:44
and you know we're going to get you know
49:46
you know we're going to get you know
49:46
you know we're going to get you know it's going to be hell to pay
49:48
it's going to be hell to pay
49:48
it's going to be hell to pay but it's going to be okay in the long
49:50
but it's going to be okay in the long
49:50
but it's going to be okay in the long run yeah
49:51
run yeah
49:51
run yeah but when you're on the news you know
49:54
but when you're on the news you know
49:54
but when you're on the news you know because you had a breach or something
49:55
because you had a breach or something
49:55
because you had a breach or something like that
49:57
like that
49:57
like that uh those are tons those are not the
49:59
uh those are tons those are not the
49:59
uh those are tons those are not the conversations i want to get called
50:01
conversations i want to get called
50:01
conversations i want to get called upstairs you know to have that
50:03
upstairs you know to have that
50:03
upstairs you know to have that conversation
50:04
conversation
50:04
conversation yeah it's pretty important and talk
50:06
yeah it's pretty important and talk
50:06
yeah it's pretty important and talk about a place and you you said this
50:07
about a place and you you said this
50:07
about a place and you you said this specifically i think as a specialty
50:10
specifically i think as a specialty
50:10
specifically i think as a specialty yeah that's a place where we have
50:12
yeah that's a place where we have
50:12
yeah that's a place where we have someone that knows their stuff you know
50:14
someone that knows their stuff you know
50:14
someone that knows their stuff you know yeah we gotta wrap it up but you know i
50:17
yeah we gotta wrap it up but you know i
50:17
yeah we gotta wrap it up but you know i just want to end on this note and
50:19
just want to end on this note and
50:19
just want to end on this note and you can make a comment but you know it's
50:21
you can make a comment but you know it's
50:21
you can make a comment but you know it's one of the things on my on the bullet
50:22
one of the things on my on the bullet
50:22
one of the things on my on the bullet list which kind of ties into this
50:24
list which kind of ties into this
50:24
list which kind of ties into this which is something that's i've been
50:25
which is something that's i've been
50:25
which is something that's i've been thinking a lot about lately and i've
50:27
thinking a lot about lately and i've
50:27
thinking a lot about lately and i've been trying to figure out
50:28
been trying to figure out
50:28
been trying to figure out you know what to write about it and um
50:31
you know what to write about it and um
50:31
you know what to write about it and um you know
50:32
you know
50:32
you know and maybe this is just me but you know i
50:35
and maybe this is just me but you know i
50:35
and maybe this is just me but you know i like being proud of my work
50:37
like being proud of my work
50:37
like being proud of my work right i like architecting developing a
50:40
right i like architecting developing a
50:40
right i like architecting developing a product from beginning to end
50:41
product from beginning to end
50:41
product from beginning to end and then see it out in the wild and that
50:44
and then see it out in the wild and that
50:44
and then see it out in the wild and that just makes me so proud that i've done
50:46
just makes me so proud that i've done
50:46
just makes me so proud that i've done something to help other people
50:48
something to help other people
50:48
something to help other people right and i see that lacking these days
50:51
right and i see that lacking these days
50:51
right and i see that lacking these days at least in
50:52
at least in
50:52
at least in you know the people i talk to or work
50:54
you know the people i talk to or work
50:54
you know the people i talk to or work with um
50:55
with um
50:55
with um not where i work now i mean i talk about
50:57
not where i work now i mean i talk about
50:57
not where i work now i mean i talk about you know other places
50:58
you know other places
50:58
you know other places and um you know
51:01
and um you know
51:01
and um you know you you should be proud of your work
51:03
you you should be proud of your work
51:03
you you should be proud of your work right in most cases right and
51:06
right in most cases right and
51:06
right in most cases right and not only does it make you feel good but
51:08
not only does it make you feel good but
51:08
not only does it make you feel good but it kind of uplifts you and keeps you
51:10
it kind of uplifts you and keeps you
51:10
it kind of uplifts you and keeps you going
51:10
going
51:10
going right and because this is going to be a
51:12
right and because this is going to be a
51:12
right and because this is going to be a tough job sometimes right
51:14
tough job sometimes right
51:14
tough job sometimes right and so just be proud of your work
51:17
and so just be proud of your work
51:17
and so just be proud of your work yeah you know it fits into that
51:19
yeah you know it fits into that
51:19
yeah you know it fits into that intrinsic motivation
51:21
intrinsic motivation
51:21
intrinsic motivation aspect of the job right um i think a lot
51:24
aspect of the job right um i think a lot
51:24
aspect of the job right um i think a lot of people don't take the time
51:25
of people don't take the time
51:26
of people don't take the time to to let themselves be proud of their
51:27
to to let themselves be proud of their
51:27
to to let themselves be proud of their work to sort of like
51:29
work to sort of like
51:29
work to sort of like you know we ship it and then we forget
51:30
you know we ship it and then we forget
51:30
you know we ship it and then we forget it or we said it that kind of thing you
51:32
it or we said it that kind of thing you
51:32
it or we said it that kind of thing you know
51:33
know
51:33
know um talk to the users right first of all
51:35
um talk to the users right first of all
51:36
um talk to the users right first of all let's
51:36
let's
51:36
let's circle around and build up the quality
51:38
circle around and build up the quality
51:38
circle around and build up the quality right it's going to help the application
51:39
right it's going to help the application
51:39
right it's going to help the application get better
51:40
get better
51:40
get better but yeah you know it's so great to find
51:43
but yeah you know it's so great to find
51:43
but yeah you know it's so great to find out
51:43
out
51:44
out that um i don't write software that
51:47
that um i don't write software that
51:47
that um i don't write software that when you you know say it's great to
51:48
when you you know say it's great to
51:48
when you you know say it's great to write you know that helps people
51:50
write you know that helps people
51:50
write you know that helps people my software's not saving the world right
51:52
my software's not saving the world right
51:52
my software's not saving the world right i'm building
51:53
i'm building
51:53
i'm building the you know the code for some unicef
51:56
the you know the code for some unicef
51:56
the you know the code for some unicef foundation you know like that's not what
51:58
foundation you know like that's not what
51:58
foundation you know like that's not what i do i'm not changing the world i'm not
51:59
i do i'm not changing the world i'm not
51:59
i do i'm not changing the world i'm not helping people
52:01
helping people
52:01
helping people but i'm making people's day-to-day jobs
52:03
but i'm making people's day-to-day jobs
52:03
but i'm making people's day-to-day jobs better right
52:04
better right
52:04
better right that's important to them it's me it's
52:07
that's important to them it's me it's
52:07
that's important to them it's me it's important our organization right all
52:08
important our organization right all
52:08
important our organization right all these things and it really is nice
52:10
these things and it really is nice
52:10
these things and it really is nice to focus on the value that your software
52:14
to focus on the value that your software
52:14
to focus on the value that your software provides and things like that it's just
52:16
provides and things like that it's just
52:16
provides and things like that it's just a nice feeling like you said it's sort
52:17
a nice feeling like you said it's sort
52:17
a nice feeling like you said it's sort of like take that
52:19
of like take that
52:19
of like take that and and embrace it and and some people
52:21
and and embrace it and and some people
52:21
and and embrace it and and some people maybe don't
52:22
maybe don't
52:22
maybe don't care i think is what you're also getting
52:24
care i think is what you're also getting
52:24
care i think is what you're also getting at like they just
52:26
at like they just
52:26
at like they just they don't care um
52:29
that's unfortunate you know that's just
52:30
that's unfortunate you know that's just
52:30
that's unfortunate you know that's just an unfortunate way to go through life in
52:32
an unfortunate way to go through life in
52:32
an unfortunate way to go through life in general
52:33
general
52:33
general you know like i'm one of those people
52:34
you know like i'm one of those people
52:34
you know like i'm one of those people that i say anything worth doing is worth
52:35
that i say anything worth doing is worth
52:35
that i say anything worth doing is worth doing right
52:37
doing right
52:37
doing right i mean whether it's writing the software
52:39
i mean whether it's writing the software
52:40
i mean whether it's writing the software or playing guitar
52:42
or playing guitar
52:42
or playing guitar uh you know your stream and you've got
52:44
uh you know your stream and you've got
52:44
uh you know your stream and you've got nice graphics on there you know it's
52:46
nice graphics on there you know it's
52:46
nice graphics on there you know it's like
52:46
like
52:46
like do it and take pride in it and enjoy it
52:49
do it and take pride in it and enjoy it
52:49
do it and take pride in it and enjoy it it sort of comes back around and it
52:50
it sort of comes back around and it
52:50
it sort of comes back around and it makes you feel
52:51
makes you feel
52:51
makes you feel good yeah so yeah with you yeah
52:54
good yeah so yeah with you yeah
52:54
good yeah so yeah with you yeah well well thanks for being on this on
52:56
well well thanks for being on this on
52:56
well well thanks for being on this on the show i've really enjoyed this and uh
52:59
the show i've really enjoyed this and uh
52:59
the show i've really enjoyed this and uh you know you should submit your paper to
53:01
you know you should submit your paper to
53:01
you know you should submit your paper to the uh code quality conference
53:03
the uh code quality conference
53:03
the uh code quality conference or just email me you have my email um
53:07
or just email me you have my email um
53:07
or just email me you have my email um and uh but before you we go i what do
53:10
and uh but before you we go i what do
53:10
and uh but before you we go i what do you like to do for fun andy
53:12
you like to do for fun andy
53:12
you like to do for fun andy besides guitar oh yeah you know
53:15
besides guitar oh yeah you know
53:15
besides guitar oh yeah you know interestingly i haven't been playing a
53:17
interestingly i haven't been playing a
53:17
interestingly i haven't been playing a lot of guitar lately
53:18
lot of guitar lately
53:18
lot of guitar lately recently back um i find that i like
53:21
recently back um i find that i like
53:21
recently back um i find that i like quiet in the house to play guitar and
53:23
quiet in the house to play guitar and
53:23
quiet in the house to play guitar and with covid it's never really
53:25
with covid it's never really
53:25
with covid it's never really everyone's always home so that was kind
53:26
everyone's always home so that was kind
53:26
everyone's always home so that was kind of hard for me you know i like the
53:28
of hard for me you know i like the
53:28
of hard for me you know i like the outdoors i like getting out
53:31
outdoors i like getting out
53:31
outdoors i like getting out going for hikes or just even sitting in
53:32
going for hikes or just even sitting in
53:32
going for hikes or just even sitting in the backyard or you know
53:34
the backyard or you know
53:34
the backyard or you know spending time with my family and you
53:36
spending time with my family and you
53:36
spending time with my family and you know we do family hikes or we go bike
53:38
know we do family hikes or we go bike
53:38
know we do family hikes or we go bike rides
53:38
rides
53:38
rides you know not as much as we should you
53:40
you know not as much as we should you
53:40
you know not as much as we should you know but
53:41
know but
53:42
know but but we do that my kids and i have a
53:44
but we do that my kids and i have a
53:44
but we do that my kids and i have a giant uh
53:45
giant uh
53:46
giant uh lego table downstairs um where we build
53:49
lego table downstairs um where we build
53:49
lego table downstairs um where we build a lego amusement park that's
53:51
a lego amusement park that's
53:51
a lego amusement park that's it's pretty crazy down there i love
53:54
it's pretty crazy down there i love
53:54
it's pretty crazy down there i love legos what's that
53:56
legos what's that
53:56
legos what's that i love legos i think a lot of computer
53:59
i love legos i think a lot of computer
53:59
i love legos i think a lot of computer people seem to
54:01
people seem to
54:01
people seem to like legos right uh and then just really
54:03
like legos right uh and then just really
54:03
like legos right uh and then just really like being my friends you know
54:05
like being my friends you know
54:05
like being my friends you know more than more than you know doing like
54:07
more than more than you know doing like
54:08
more than more than you know doing like fancy
54:08
fancy
54:08
fancy you know going out i would i'm really
54:11
you know going out i would i'm really
54:11
you know going out i would i'm really happy to have a couple friends sit in
54:12
happy to have a couple friends sit in
54:12
happy to have a couple friends sit in the backyard the fire pit is going
54:15
the backyard the fire pit is going
54:15
the backyard the fire pit is going a couple of years and to me that's a
54:18
a couple of years and to me that's a
54:18
a couple of years and to me that's a great night you know so
54:20
great night you know so
54:20
great night you know so you know yeah well great it's a
54:23
you know yeah well great it's a
54:23
you know yeah well great it's a photographer like you
54:24
photographer like you
54:24
photographer like you i've been watching your photography
54:26
i've been watching your photography
54:26
i've been watching your photography lately on facebook i mean i'm pretty
54:27
lately on facebook i mean i'm pretty
54:28
lately on facebook i mean i'm pretty impressed with some of those photos
54:29
impressed with some of those photos
54:29
impressed with some of those photos you've been posting
54:30
you've been posting
54:30
you've been posting thank you i uh yeah so i'm you know
54:33
thank you i uh yeah so i'm you know
54:33
thank you i uh yeah so i'm you know the reason i've been doing that just to
54:35
the reason i've been doing that just to
54:35
the reason i've been doing that just to let everybody know if you follow me on
54:36
let everybody know if you follow me on
54:36
let everybody know if you follow me on facebook is because
54:38
facebook is because
54:38
facebook is because you know i i have this weird so when i
54:41
you know i i have this weird so when i
54:41
you know i i have this weird so when i so i've won four photography awards and
54:43
so i've won four photography awards and
54:43
so i've won four photography awards and when you submit your picture to be
54:45
when you submit your picture to be
54:45
when you submit your picture to be you know in a you know my and mine were
54:47
you know in a you know my and mine were
54:47
you know in a you know my and mine were in the well two of them were in the
54:48
in the well two of them were in the
54:48
in the well two of them were in the largest
54:49
largest
54:49
largest you know photo contest in california and
54:52
you know photo contest in california and
54:52
you know photo contest in california and um you know when you submit a picture
54:55
um you know when you submit a picture
54:55
um you know when you submit a picture you have to title it you know and i
54:58
you have to title it you know and i
54:58
you have to title it you know and i don't like titling pictures
55:00
don't like titling pictures
55:00
don't like titling pictures right because i want people to look at
55:02
right because i want people to look at
55:02
right because i want people to look at it and just
55:05
it and just
55:05
it and just and let it you know give them the
55:08
and let it you know give them the
55:08
and let it you know give them the emotion of whatever that comes to them
55:10
emotion of whatever that comes to them
55:10
emotion of whatever that comes to them not for me telling you what it is right
55:13
not for me telling you what it is right
55:13
not for me telling you what it is right but
55:13
but
55:13
but that's what they have so i've been kind
55:15
that's what they have so i've been kind
55:15
that's what they have so i've been kind of and so i'm really bad at naming my
55:17
of and so i'm really bad at naming my
55:17
of and so i'm really bad at naming my pictures you know i just name it like
55:18
pictures you know i just name it like
55:18
pictures you know i just name it like sunset or something boring thing like
55:20
sunset or something boring thing like
55:20
sunset or something boring thing like that
55:21
that
55:21
that and so that's why i've been you know
55:22
and so that's why i've been you know
55:22
and so that's why i've been you know putting them on facebook and i've been
55:23
putting them on facebook and i've been
55:24
putting them on facebook and i've been getting a lot of help from one guy that
55:26
getting a lot of help from one guy that
55:26
getting a lot of help from one guy that uh
55:26
uh
55:26
uh came to my conference talks in the
55:28
came to my conference talks in the
55:28
came to my conference talks in the country of mauritius of all places
55:30
country of mauritius of all places
55:30
country of mauritius of all places he's been all naming most of my pictures
55:33
he's been all naming most of my pictures
55:33
he's been all naming most of my pictures so
55:34
so
55:34
so uh so i thought you were going to get
55:35
uh so i thought you were going to get
55:35
uh so i thought you were going to get mad at me i stopped doing it but
55:37
mad at me i stopped doing it but
55:37
mad at me i stopped doing it but i kept every time you posted one i'd be
55:39
i kept every time you posted one i'd be
55:39
i kept every time you posted one i'd be like you name it i'd be like
55:41
like you name it i'd be like
55:41
like you name it i'd be like man on the beach or you know i'd say
55:44
man on the beach or you know i'd say
55:44
man on the beach or you know i'd say flower
55:45
flower
55:45
flower you know like i thought i was gonna hate
55:46
you know like i thought i was gonna hate
55:46
you know like i thought i was gonna hate me for i keep i did it like three times
55:48
me for i keep i did it like three times
55:48
me for i keep i did it like three times i said i gotta let it go he's gonna get
55:49
i said i gotta let it go he's gonna get
55:50
i said i gotta let it go he's gonna get mad at me
55:51
mad at me
55:51
mad at me yeah and i've been i've been yeah i've
55:53
yeah and i've been i've been yeah i've
55:54
yeah and i've been i've been yeah i've been posting them every day after
55:55
been posting them every day after
55:55
been posting them every day after today i decided to like only do it on
55:57
today i decided to like only do it on
55:57
today i decided to like only do it on fridays now i think i'm overwhelming
55:59
fridays now i think i'm overwhelming
55:59
fridays now i think i'm overwhelming people
55:59
people
55:59
people um so i'm gonna slow it down a bit um
56:02
um so i'm gonna slow it down a bit um
56:02
um so i'm gonna slow it down a bit um but anyway
56:03
but anyway
56:03
but anyway thanks a lot for being on the show uh
56:05
thanks a lot for being on the show uh
56:05
thanks a lot for being on the show uh hang out afterwards if you want to chat
56:06
hang out afterwards if you want to chat
56:06
hang out afterwards if you want to chat and uh get the numbers and uh and i hope
56:10
and uh get the numbers and uh and i hope
56:10
and uh get the numbers and uh and i hope to have you back on the show and anytime
56:11
to have you back on the show and anytime
56:12
to have you back on the show and anytime you want to come on and talk about any
56:13
you want to come on and talk about any
56:13
you want to come on and talk about any of these subjects that i gave you or any
56:15
of these subjects that i gave you or any
56:15
of these subjects that i gave you or any other ones please reach out
56:16
other ones please reach out
56:16
other ones please reach out you always have a home here on my show
56:19
you always have a home here on my show
56:20
you always have a home here on my show ah thanks i appreciate that this was
56:21
ah thanks i appreciate that this was
56:21
ah thanks i appreciate that this was this was definitely like a lot of fun
56:23
this was definitely like a lot of fun
56:23
this was definitely like a lot of fun easy conversation like you know just
56:25
easy conversation like you know just
56:25
easy conversation like you know just we're just talking about stuff that goes
56:27
we're just talking about stuff that goes
56:27
we're just talking about stuff that goes on and i and i hope that people are
56:29
on and i and i hope that people are
56:29
on and i and i hope that people are listening and
56:30
listening and
56:30
listening and and hear that and this resonates with
56:31
and hear that and this resonates with
56:31
and hear that and this resonates with them that you know
56:33
them that you know
56:33
them that you know we spend time to talk about it and these
56:35
we spend time to talk about it and these
56:35
we spend time to talk about it and these are good things to keep in mind you know
56:37
are good things to keep in mind you know
56:37
are good things to keep in mind you know yeah so thank you i'll see you next time
56:41
yeah so thank you i'll see you next time
56:41
yeah so thank you i'll see you next time uh when we chat online or in person
56:43
uh when we chat online or in person
56:43
uh when we chat online or in person hopefully someday
56:45
hopefully someday
56:45
hopefully someday hopefully well thanks that was a
56:48
hopefully well thanks that was a
56:48
hopefully well thanks that was a that was an awesome uh uh talk with uh
56:51
that was an awesome uh uh talk with uh
56:51
that was an awesome uh uh talk with uh andy you know i we didn't get to near
56:53
andy you know i we didn't get to near
56:53
andy you know i we didn't get to near the number of subjects that
56:55
the number of subjects that
56:55
the number of subjects that we had lined out uh but that's okay you
56:57
we had lined out uh but that's okay you
56:57
we had lined out uh but that's okay you know i've got lots of shows to do
56:59
know i've got lots of shows to do
56:59
know i've got lots of shows to do so i've got tons of topics to work on so
57:02
so i've got tons of topics to work on so
57:02
so i've got tons of topics to work on so anyway let's uh finish up the show uh
57:06
anyway let's uh finish up the show uh
57:06
anyway let's uh finish up the show uh so you guys can get to sleep or uh
57:09
so you guys can get to sleep or uh
57:09
so you guys can get to sleep or uh get back to work uh so all of you who
57:12
get back to work uh so all of you who
57:12
get back to work uh so all of you who are watching right now can get a free
57:13
are watching right now can get a free
57:13
are watching right now can get a free copy a real free copy of coders from
57:15
copy a real free copy of coders from
57:15
copy a real free copy of coders from devexpress
57:17
devexpress
57:17
devexpress um coders from devexpress is the
57:19
um coders from devexpress is the
57:19
um coders from devexpress is the refracting tool that i use
57:21
refracting tool that i use
57:21
refracting tool that i use i use it every day i code and uh
57:24
i use it every day i code and uh
57:24
i use it every day i code and uh and i've been using it ever since visual
57:25
and i've been using it ever since visual
57:25
and i've been using it ever since visual studio has been around so
57:27
studio has been around so
57:27
studio has been around so um please go download download your free
57:31
um please go download download your free
57:31
um please go download download your free copy
57:31
copy
57:31
copy uh and thank you for uh everybody at
57:34
uh and thank you for uh everybody at
57:34
uh and thank you for uh everybody at devexpress for providing these for me
57:37
devexpress for providing these for me
57:37
devexpress for providing these for me um so i'm starting a new section uh this
57:39
um so i'm starting a new section uh this
57:40
um so i'm starting a new section uh this is the second week i'm doing this uh
57:41
is the second week i'm doing this uh
57:41
is the second week i'm doing this uh what i call the now
57:42
what i call the now
57:42
what i call the now new code rules and it's just something
57:45
new code rules and it's just something
57:45
new code rules and it's just something that's on my head i want to kind of
57:47
that's on my head i want to kind of
57:47
that's on my head i want to kind of talk about and do a little commentary on
57:50
talk about and do a little commentary on
57:50
talk about and do a little commentary on and so uh the one today which
57:53
and so uh the one today which
57:53
and so uh the one today which kind of fits in then not that i planned
57:55
kind of fits in then not that i planned
57:55
kind of fits in then not that i planned it was
57:56
it was
57:56
it was um this is agile working you know and
57:59
um this is agile working you know and
57:59
um this is agile working you know and you know andy and i talked pretty much
58:01
you know andy and i talked pretty much
58:01
you know andy and i talked pretty much the whole show
58:02
the whole show
58:02
the whole show about quality you know code quality
58:05
about quality you know code quality
58:05
about quality you know code quality application quality and this is kind of
58:07
application quality and this is kind of
58:07
application quality and this is kind of what i'm talking about
58:08
what i'm talking about
58:08
what i'm talking about um is agile really helping this
58:11
um is agile really helping this
58:11
um is agile really helping this right and in lots of places i see it's
58:14
right and in lots of places i see it's
58:14
right and in lots of places i see it's not
58:15
not
58:15
not and um and you know there's
58:18
and um and you know there's
58:18
and um and you know there's lots of different methodologies out
58:20
lots of different methodologies out
58:20
lots of different methodologies out there and um
58:23
there and um
58:23
there and um and and and as far as it comes to
58:25
and and and as far as it comes to
58:25
and and and as far as it comes to application
58:26
application
58:26
application quality i mean the apps that i use um
58:29
quality i mean the apps that i use um
58:29
quality i mean the apps that i use um and things like that
58:30
and things like that
58:30
and things like that i just see a severe decline
58:33
i just see a severe decline
58:33
i just see a severe decline in quality um and you know i was
58:36
in quality um and you know i was
58:36
in quality um and you know i was thinking about this week and i was
58:37
thinking about this week and i was
58:37
thinking about this week and i was thinking well
58:39
thinking well
58:39
thinking well if i go back to where i really kind of
58:41
if i go back to where i really kind of
58:41
if i go back to where i really kind of think i might
58:42
think i might
58:42
think i might have started seeing it it was around the
58:44
have started seeing it it was around the
58:44
have started seeing it it was around the time
58:45
time
58:45
time agile started getting super popular and
58:48
agile started getting super popular and
58:48
agile started getting super popular and so i'm not saying eye jobs is a problem
58:50
so i'm not saying eye jobs is a problem
58:50
so i'm not saying eye jobs is a problem i'm i'm just putting two things together
58:53
i'm i'm just putting two things together
58:54
i'm i'm just putting two things together in my head and want to talk about it
58:56
in my head and want to talk about it
58:56
in my head and want to talk about it um so is agile hurting software quality
58:59
um so is agile hurting software quality
58:59
um so is agile hurting software quality or is it helping i mean i guess it
59:00
or is it helping i mean i guess it
59:00
or is it helping i mean i guess it really depends like andy was talking
59:02
really depends like andy was talking
59:02
really depends like andy was talking about on your team and how seriously
59:04
about on your team and how seriously
59:04
about on your team and how seriously they take this and um
59:07
they take this and um
59:07
they take this and um so you know i think we need to talk
59:09
so you know i think we need to talk
59:09
so you know i think we need to talk about
59:11
about
59:11
about not necessarily a new way of doing agile
59:13
not necessarily a new way of doing agile
59:13
not necessarily a new way of doing agile or methodology i mean there's lots of
59:15
or methodology i mean there's lots of
59:15
or methodology i mean there's lots of ones like even my
59:17
ones like even my
59:17
ones like even my a close personal friend created one of
59:19
a close personal friend created one of
59:19
a close personal friend created one of his own called mob programming that's uh
59:21
his own called mob programming that's uh
59:21
his own called mob programming that's uh becoming pretty successful and um
59:25
becoming pretty successful and um
59:25
becoming pretty successful and um and actually bob programming creates
59:26
and actually bob programming creates
59:26
and actually bob programming creates better quality software right from day
59:29
better quality software right from day
59:29
better quality software right from day one
59:29
one
59:30
one if you watch some of the videos and um
59:33
if you watch some of the videos and um
59:33
if you watch some of the videos and um so you know and and agile to me and i
59:36
so you know and and agile to me and i
59:36
so you know and and agile to me and i think i think it was i was thinking
59:37
think i think it was i was thinking
59:38
think i think it was i was thinking about this because i took a
59:39
about this because i took a
59:40
about this because i took a for the first time in a really long time
59:42
for the first time in a really long time
59:42
for the first time in a really long time some company
59:44
some company
59:44
some company gave me a programming test and um
59:48
gave me a programming test and um
59:48
gave me a programming test and um and uh which i don't even remember the
59:50
and uh which i don't even remember the
59:50
and uh which i don't even remember the last time i got one
59:51
last time i got one
59:51
last time i got one and the problem was it was timed you
59:54
and the problem was it was timed you
59:54
and the problem was it was timed you know
59:54
know
59:54
know and i just
59:58
and i just
59:58
and i just did really bad on it because there was
1:00:00
did really bad on it because there was
1:00:00
did really bad on it because there was this timer
1:00:02
this timer
1:00:02
this timer click get it done get it done get it
1:00:03
click get it done get it done get it
1:00:03
click get it done get it done get it done get it done get it done
1:00:05
done get it done get it done
1:00:05
done get it done get it done and then two minutes before the it timed
1:00:07
and then two minutes before the it timed
1:00:07
and then two minutes before the it timed out you have two minutes left before it
1:00:09
out you have two minutes left before it
1:00:09
out you have two minutes left before it times out
1:00:10
times out
1:00:10
times out and i'm just going you know and
1:00:14
and i'm just going you know and
1:00:14
and i'm just going you know and sometimes i feel that's the way edge
1:00:16
sometimes i feel that's the way edge
1:00:16
sometimes i feel that's the way edge agile can be especially the way
1:00:18
agile can be especially the way
1:00:18
agile can be especially the way you know companies um um use it or
1:00:22
you know companies um um use it or
1:00:22
you know companies um um use it or make it put it in their team and so it
1:00:25
make it put it in their team and so it
1:00:25
make it put it in their team and so it just feels like i'm
1:00:26
just feels like i'm
1:00:26
just feels like i'm always under this timer timer timer rush
1:00:28
always under this timer timer timer rush
1:00:28
always under this timer timer timer rush rush rush
1:00:29
rush rush
1:00:29
rush rush and um i don't know what do you guys
1:00:31
and um i don't know what do you guys
1:00:31
and um i don't know what do you guys think you know please uh
1:00:33
think you know please uh
1:00:33
think you know please uh you know uh we're almost done but you
1:00:35
you know uh we're almost done but you
1:00:35
you know uh we're almost done but you know send me an email or tweet about it
1:00:37
know send me an email or tweet about it
1:00:37
know send me an email or tweet about it and um you know
1:00:40
and um you know
1:00:40
and um you know one one thing i'd like to to end with
1:00:42
one one thing i'd like to to end with
1:00:42
one one thing i'd like to to end with this a little bit is
1:00:44
this a little bit is
1:00:44
this a little bit is just imagine if your home was built like
1:00:46
just imagine if your home was built like
1:00:46
just imagine if your home was built like an agile process
1:00:48
an agile process
1:00:48
an agile process you know you get you you move into your
1:00:49
you know you get you you move into your
1:00:50
you know you get you you move into your new home you know there's no stairwell
1:00:52
new home you know there's no stairwell
1:00:52
new home you know there's no stairwell well we'll get to that in six months you
1:00:54
well we'll get to that in six months you
1:00:54
well we'll get to that in six months you know there's
1:00:56
know there's
1:00:56
know there's you know all kinds of things missing
1:00:58
you know all kinds of things missing
1:00:58
you know all kinds of things missing yeah we'll get to that
1:00:59
yeah we'll get to that
1:00:59
yeah we'll get to that version two of the house you know um i
1:01:02
version two of the house you know um i
1:01:02
version two of the house you know um i don't know
1:01:03
don't know
1:01:03
don't know it's just something i've been thinking
1:01:04
it's just something i've been thinking
1:01:04
it's just something i've been thinking about you know and and
1:01:06
about you know and and
1:01:06
about you know and and and and thinking even about software
1:01:08
and and thinking even about software
1:01:08
and and thinking even about software that you and i use every day
1:01:11
that you and i use every day
1:01:11
that you and i use every day sometimes i kind of wish we would have
1:01:12
sometimes i kind of wish we would have
1:01:12
sometimes i kind of wish we would have packed a waterfall i don't know
1:01:15
packed a waterfall i don't know
1:01:15
packed a waterfall i don't know waterfall had its issues but it to me
1:01:18
waterfall had its issues but it to me
1:01:18
waterfall had its issues but it to me software quality is
1:01:20
software quality is
1:01:20
software quality is generally better i don't know what do
1:01:22
generally better i don't know what do
1:01:22
generally better i don't know what do you guys think so drop me a line let me
1:01:24
you guys think so drop me a line let me
1:01:24
you guys think so drop me a line let me know what you think
1:01:25
know what you think
1:01:25
know what you think and uh i'm going to keep doing these
1:01:27
and uh i'm going to keep doing these
1:01:27
and uh i'm going to keep doing these until somebody gets mad
1:01:29
until somebody gets mad
1:01:29
until somebody gets mad and tells me to shut up so um
1:01:32
and tells me to shut up so um
1:01:32
and tells me to shut up so um all right well i want to thank everybody
1:01:34
all right well i want to thank everybody
1:01:34
all right well i want to thank everybody for watching next week
1:01:36
for watching next week
1:01:36
for watching next week i have a tara weiss coming on she's the
1:01:39
i have a tara weiss coming on she's the
1:01:39
i have a tara weiss coming on she's the program manager uh for visual studio
1:01:42
program manager uh for visual studio
1:01:42
program manager uh for visual studio i'm excited to talk to her because she's
1:01:44
i'm excited to talk to her because she's
1:01:44
i'm excited to talk to her because she's just new out of college
1:01:45
just new out of college
1:01:45
just new out of college and uh might be my youngest guest so far
1:01:48
and uh might be my youngest guest so far
1:01:48
and uh might be my youngest guest so far i think i don't know
1:01:50
i think i don't know
1:01:50
i think i don't know so come back next week uh for that
1:01:53
so come back next week uh for that
1:01:53
so come back next week uh for that uh please be safe with covid especially
1:01:55
uh please be safe with covid especially
1:01:55
uh please be safe with covid especially all of my
1:01:56
all of my
1:01:56
all of my friends in india um i'm as you saw the
1:01:59
friends in india um i'm as you saw the
1:01:59
friends in india um i'm as you saw the beginning of me
1:02:00
beginning of me
1:02:00
beginning of me to show me breaking down you know my
1:02:02
to show me breaking down you know my
1:02:02
to show me breaking down you know my thoughts and prayers are with you
1:02:04
thoughts and prayers are with you
1:02:04
thoughts and prayers are with you every day and i hope things get better
1:02:07
every day and i hope things get better
1:02:07
every day and i hope things get better um the rest of us if you can donate
1:02:10
um the rest of us if you can donate
1:02:10
um the rest of us if you can donate blood please do
1:02:11
blood please do
1:02:11
blood please do there's a huge shortage right now and i
1:02:13
there's a huge shortage right now and i
1:02:13
there's a huge shortage right now and i know at least at my blood bank
1:02:15
know at least at my blood bank
1:02:15
know at least at my blood bank um taking the moderna vaccine does not
1:02:18
um taking the moderna vaccine does not
1:02:18
um taking the moderna vaccine does not prevent you from giving blood so
1:02:20
prevent you from giving blood so
1:02:20
prevent you from giving blood so if you if if you're waiting because of
1:02:22
if you if if you're waiting because of
1:02:22
if you if if you're waiting because of that stop and go get blood right now
1:02:24
that stop and go get blood right now
1:02:24
that stop and go get blood right now it's easy
1:02:25
it's easy
1:02:25
it's easy it doesn't cost you anything and it
1:02:27
it doesn't cost you anything and it
1:02:27
it doesn't cost you anything and it makes you feel good
1:02:30
makes you feel good
1:02:30
makes you feel good so please email me your suggestions uh
1:02:33
so please email me your suggestions uh
1:02:33
so please email me your suggestions uh and requests to uh rock in the code
1:02:35
and requests to uh rock in the code
1:02:35
and requests to uh rock in the code world a cheat sharp corner
1:02:36
world a cheat sharp corner
1:02:36
world a cheat sharp corner um if you want to be a guest if you want
1:02:38
um if you want to be a guest if you want
1:02:38
um if you want to be a guest if you want me to get a guest on
1:02:40
me to get a guest on
1:02:40
me to get a guest on um all those things you know um please
1:02:43
um all those things you know um please
1:02:43
um all those things you know um please email me
1:02:44
email me
1:02:44
email me and we'll work it into the show and with
1:02:46
and we'll work it into the show and with
1:02:46
and we'll work it into the show and with that
1:02:47
that
1:02:47
that thanks a lot for attending uh watching
1:02:49
thanks a lot for attending uh watching
1:02:49
thanks a lot for attending uh watching another episode of rock of the
1:02:51
another episode of rock of the
1:02:51
another episode of rock of the coldworld.net dave i'll see you next
1:02:55
coldworld.net dave i'll see you next
1:02:55
coldworld.net dave i'll see you next [Applause]
1:03:00
week
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week
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week [Music]
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so
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