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The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Daniel Raniz - Ep: 45
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Aug 6, 2025
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Daniel Raniz for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on October 30, at 01:05 PM (EST). The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach. GUEST SPEAKERS Daniel Raniz is a software architect from Sweden with more than 15 years of experience with Java and more than 10 with AWS. He is a strong believer in open source and try to contribute whenever he can. His dream of author a popular Open Source project someday. The small ones he have lying around isn't much to brag about, however. 📺 CSharp TV - Dev Streaming Destination http://csharp.tv 🌎 C# Corner - Community of Software and Data Developers https://www.c-sharpcorner.com #CSharpTV #csharpcorner #TheCloudShow #CSharp #Interview
View Video Transcript
0:01
hello hello everyone and welcome to yet
0:03
hello hello everyone and welcome to yet
0:03
hello hello everyone and welcome to yet another episode of the cloud show so
0:06
another episode of the cloud show so
0:06
another episode of the cloud show so there are different clouds uh that you
0:08
there are different clouds uh that you
0:08
there are different clouds uh that you could use and and the question is when
0:11
could use and and the question is when
0:11
could use and and the question is when you start using a cloud provider how
0:13
you start using a cloud provider how
0:13
you start using a cloud provider how tightly should you couple your Solutions
0:15
tightly should you couple your Solutions
0:15
tightly should you couple your Solutions and your your uh your things that you
0:17
and your your uh your things that you
0:17
and your your uh your things that you want to deploy to that cloud provider do
0:20
want to deploy to that cloud provider do
0:20
want to deploy to that cloud provider do you need like an exit strategy how does
0:22
you need like an exit strategy how does
0:22
you need like an exit strategy how does all of this work and are there actually
0:24
all of this work and are there actually
0:24
all of this work and are there actually in fact regulations that we need to
0:25
in fact regulations that we need to
0:25
in fact regulations that we need to relate to in this space I'm going to
0:28
relate to in this space I'm going to
0:28
relate to in this space I'm going to talk to an expert about this today from
0:31
talk to an expert about this today from
0:31
talk to an expert about this today from Factor 10 it's Daniel Ritz welcome to
0:33
Factor 10 it's Daniel Ritz welcome to
0:34
Factor 10 it's Daniel Ritz welcome to the cloud
0:35
the cloud
0:35
the cloud [Music]
0:44
show well hello there
0:47
show well hello there
0:47
show well hello there hello very welcome to the show Danielle
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hello very welcome to the show Danielle
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hello very welcome to the show Danielle thank you it's a pleasure being here
0:53
thank you it's a pleasure being here
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thank you it's a pleasure being here absolutely a pleasure to have you and so
0:55
absolutely a pleasure to have you and so
0:55
absolutely a pleasure to have you and so for the record donian is from Sweden so
0:57
for the record donian is from Sweden so
0:57
for the record donian is from Sweden so we could have done this in Swedish but
0:59
we could have done this in Swedish but
0:59
we could have done this in Swedish but the the the audience would have been so
1:01
the the the audience would have been so
1:01
the the the audience would have been so much less right like yeah we want we
1:05
much less right like yeah we want we
1:05
much less right like yeah we want we want to reach a broad audience right
1:07
want to reach a broad audience right
1:07
want to reach a broad audience right that's right we do we do this is an
1:09
that's right we do we do this is an
1:09
that's right we do we do this is an important topic so there's there's
1:10
important topic so there's there's
1:10
important topic so there's there's actually really good reason for for that
1:13
actually really good reason for for that
1:13
actually really good reason for for that but before we dive into the topic of
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but before we dive into the topic of
1:15
but before we dive into the topic of today why don't you tell the audience
1:16
today why don't you tell the audience
1:16
today why don't you tell the audience just a little bit about yourself in
1:17
just a little bit about yourself in
1:17
just a little bit about yourself in Factor 10 well so um my name is uh Ronis
1:22
Factor 10 well so um my name is uh Ronis
1:22
Factor 10 well so um my name is uh Ronis or it's Daniel but everyone calls me
1:24
or it's Daniel but everyone calls me
1:24
or it's Daniel but everyone calls me Ronis uh I've been a software developer
1:27
Ronis uh I've been a software developer
1:27
Ronis uh I've been a software developer for uh 18 years I think we're drawing up
1:30
for uh 18 years I think we're drawing up
1:30
for uh 18 years I think we're drawing up on um I've been working with Cloud uh
1:34
on um I've been working with Cloud uh
1:34
on um I've been working with Cloud uh mostly AWS before but uh lately I've
1:37
mostly AWS before but uh lately I've
1:37
mostly AWS before but uh lately I've been working with a bunch of of uh the
1:40
been working with a bunch of of uh the
1:40
been working with a bunch of of uh the bigger clouds and some minor ones I
1:42
bigger clouds and some minor ones I
1:42
bigger clouds and some minor ones I started working with AWS in 2008
1:44
started working with AWS in 2008
1:44
started working with AWS in 2008 actually wow that's I think that's
1:47
actually wow that's I think that's
1:47
actually wow that's I think that's pretty early that's early that's around
1:50
pretty early that's early that's around
1:50
pretty early that's early that's around the same time same same time I started
1:51
the same time same same time I started
1:51
the same time same same time I started working with Azure so you know
1:55
working with Azure so you know
1:55
working with Azure so you know yeah um I've been I spent a lot of time
1:59
yeah um I've been I spent a lot of time
1:59
yeah um I've been I spent a lot of time with a stup in malma uh and uh then I
2:02
with a stup in malma uh and uh then I
2:02
with a stup in malma uh and uh then I decided I want to go become a consultant
2:04
decided I want to go become a consultant
2:04
decided I want to go become a consultant again and I ended up with Factor 10 uh
2:07
again and I ended up with Factor 10 uh
2:07
again and I ended up with Factor 10 uh so we're small consultancy based in
2:08
so we're small consultancy based in
2:08
so we're small consultancy based in Sweden uh we're only eight people uh we
2:11
Sweden uh we're only eight people uh we
2:11
Sweden uh we're only eight people uh we are uh on
2:13
are uh on
2:13
are uh on the uh high end of the uh seniority
2:17
the uh high end of the uh seniority
2:17
the uh high end of the uh seniority scale uh I think the word senior
2:19
scale uh I think the word senior
2:19
scale uh I think the word senior developer has lost its meaning so I
2:21
developer has lost its meaning so I
2:21
developer has lost its meaning so I don't really know what we should call
2:22
don't really know what we should call
2:22
don't really know what we should call ourselves we call ourselves coding
2:23
ourselves we call ourselves coding
2:23
ourselves we call ourselves coding Architects uh just because you're really
2:25
Architects uh just because you're really
2:25
Architects uh just because you're really good people I know I know some of you
2:27
good people I know I know some of you
2:27
good people I know I know some of you guys and yeah yeah you do you do
2:30
guys and yeah yeah you do you do
2:30
guys and yeah yeah you do you do uh we typically help out with with
2:32
uh we typically help out with with
2:32
uh we typically help out with with difficult software problems which is
2:33
difficult software problems which is
2:34
difficult software problems which is what I think we were going to talk about
2:35
what I think we were going to talk about
2:35
what I think we were going to talk about today actually that's exactly right and
2:37
today actually that's exactly right and
2:37
today actually that's exactly right and and so to to essentially pivot into that
2:40
and so to to essentially pivot into that
2:40
and so to to essentially pivot into that thank you for the segue I appreciate it
2:43
thank you for the segue I appreciate it
2:43
thank you for the segue I appreciate it um the the the fact that that we start
2:45
um the the the fact that that we start
2:46
um the the the fact that that we start using a cloud provider right we we buy
2:48
using a cloud provider right we we buy
2:48
using a cloud provider right we we buy into this Cloud Paradigm let's let's use
2:50
into this Cloud Paradigm let's let's use
2:50
into this Cloud Paradigm let's let's use the cloud that's awesome and then we
2:53
the cloud that's awesome and then we
2:53
the cloud that's awesome and then we kind of you know get intricated with
2:56
kind of you know get intricated with
2:56
kind of you know get intricated with using the services and the things of
2:57
using the services and the things of
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using the services and the things of that cloud provider um and what we want
3:00
that cloud provider um and what we want
3:00
that cloud provider um and what we want to talk about is if there are any issues
3:03
to talk about is if there are any issues
3:03
to talk about is if there are any issues with that approach or or what should you
3:04
with that approach or or what should you
3:04
with that approach or or what should you do how close to your cloud provider
3:06
do how close to your cloud provider
3:06
do how close to your cloud provider should you actually really be um there
3:09
should you actually really be um there
3:10
should you actually really be um there there's a lot to unpack there yeah there
3:12
there's a lot to unpack there yeah there
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there's a lot to unpack there yeah there is and I think uh there let's let's
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is and I think uh there let's let's
3:14
is and I think uh there let's let's start with you mentioned regulations in
3:15
start with you mentioned regulations in
3:16
start with you mentioned regulations in the in the intro setup and I think uh I
3:19
the in the intro setup and I think uh I
3:19
the in the intro setup and I think uh I think we we should start there because
3:21
think we we should start there because
3:21
think we we should start there because uh there is a a um European regulations
3:25
uh there is a a um European regulations
3:25
uh there is a a um European regulations it does only applies to European
3:26
it does only applies to European
3:26
it does only applies to European companies and it only applies to
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companies and it only applies to
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companies and it only applies to European Financial uh institutions Prov
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European Financial uh institutions Prov
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European Financial uh institutions Prov Financial
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Financial
3:32
Financial or um soci societal functions that are
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or um soci societal functions that are
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or um soci societal functions that are important to society or economics it's
3:40
important to society or economics it's
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important to society or economics it's called the digital operations resilience
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called the digital operations resilience
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called the digital operations resilience act there's a lot of stuff in there yeah
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act there's a lot of stuff in there yeah
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act there's a lot of stuff in there yeah but uh some some of the I think most
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but uh some some of the I think most
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but uh some some of the I think most interesting things uh at least for for
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interesting things uh at least for for
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interesting things uh at least for for what I work with is uh the fact that uh
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what I work with is uh the fact that uh
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what I work with is uh the fact that uh it requires you to have control
4:03
it requires you to have control
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it requires you to have control and
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and
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and uh to have the agreements in place and
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uh to have the agreements in place and
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uh to have the agreements in place and the control over your infrastructure
4:10
the control over your infrastructure
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the control over your infrastructure even if uh you buy those services from a
4:13
even if uh you buy those services from a
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even if uh you buy those services from a third party provider you need to have uh
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third party provider you need to have uh
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third party provider you need to have uh you it's on you to make sure that your
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you it's on you to make sure that your
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you it's on you to make sure that your provider follows the correct
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provider follows the correct
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provider follows the correct regulations and that you have resilience
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regulations and that you have resilience
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regulations and that you have resilience uh built in because obviously the EU
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uh built in because obviously the EU
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uh built in because obviously the EU doesn't
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doesn't
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doesn't want uh your Banks to
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want uh your Banks to
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want uh your Banks to to go down essentially uh right they
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to go down essentially uh right they
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to go down essentially uh right they should be working regardless right and
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should be working regardless right and
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should be working regardless right and it's it's it's your responsibility uh uh
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it's it's it's your responsibility uh uh
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it's it's it's your responsibility uh uh running Financial Services you you have
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running Financial Services you you have
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running Financial Services you you have to you have to live up to this so no
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to you have to live up to this so no
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to you have to live up to this so no there's a legal requirement I think
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there's a legal requirement I think
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there's a legal requirement I think actually if you fail to if if
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actually if you fail to if if
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actually if you fail to if if the the government body uh decides that
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the the government body uh decides that
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the the government body uh decides that you are not following the or haven't
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you are not following the or haven't
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you are not following the or haven't implemented the Dora uh they can
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implemented the Dora uh they can
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implemented the Dora uh they can actually give the
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actually give the
4:57
actually give the board uh they they can forbid from from
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board uh they they can forbid from from
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board uh they they can forbid from from doing business basically I don't
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doing business basically I don't
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doing business basically I don't actually don't know the English word for
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actually don't know the English word for
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actually don't know the English word for it
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it
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it n y they can essentially shut you down
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n y they can essentially shut you down
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n y they can essentially shut you down right you you follow the rules or go
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right you you follow the rules or go
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right you you follow the rules or go away yeah and it's on a personal level
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away yeah and it's on a personal level
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away yeah and it's on a personal level not only on on a company level they can
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not only on on a company level they can
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not only on on a company level they can they can tell the board that you're are
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they can tell the board that you're are
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they can tell the board that you're are not allowed to run businesses in the
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not allowed to run businesses in the
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not allowed to run businesses in the European Union anymore wow okay that's
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European Union anymore wow okay that's
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European Union anymore wow okay that's hard that's uh it's pretty harsh so and
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hard that's uh it's pretty harsh so and
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hard that's uh it's pretty harsh so and for good reason right this is financial
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for good reason right this is financial
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for good reason right this is financial institutions we're talking about they
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institutions we're talking about they
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institutions we're talking about they should like follow all the rules or else
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should like follow all the rules or else
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should like follow all the rules or else yeah or else Society might collapse yeah
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yeah or else Society might collapse yeah
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yeah or else Society might collapse yeah so it's it's this little thing right
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so it's it's this little thing right
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so it's it's this little thing right important things are on the line
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important things are on the line
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important things are on the line here but one of the things that I think
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here but one of the things that I think
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here but one of the things that I think is is really interesting is that it
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is is really interesting is that it
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is is really interesting is that it mandates that you have an exit strategy
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mandates that you have an exit strategy
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mandates that you have an exit strategy uh from your current provider there you
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uh from your current provider there you
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uh from your current provider there you go in case uh your current provider goes
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go in case uh your current provider goes
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go in case uh your current provider goes bely up uh you need to have a plan uh so
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bely up uh you need to have a plan uh so
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bely up uh you need to have a plan uh so you're not caught with your pants down
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you're not caught with your pants down
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you're not caught with your pants down and right you're say uh say you're using
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and right you're say uh say you're using
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and right you're say uh say you're using I don't know uh Google cloud and Google
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I don't know uh Google cloud and Google
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I don't know uh Google cloud and Google decides that well Cloud isn't profitable
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decides that well Cloud isn't profitable
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decides that well Cloud isn't profitable we're shutting everything down in two
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we're shutting everything down in two
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we're shutting everything down in two months right yeah uh you you should
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months right yeah uh you you should
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months right yeah uh you you should spend those two months trying to come up
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spend those two months trying to come up
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spend those two months trying to come up with what you should do you should
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with what you should do you should
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with what you should do you should already know what to do you should know
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already know what to do you should know
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already know what to do you should know what to do already so there needs to be
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what to do already so there needs to be
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what to do already so there needs to be an exit plan so to what extent do the
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an exit plan so to what extent do the
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an exit plan so to what extent do the cloud
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cloud
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cloud providers help you with this is there
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providers help you with this is there
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providers help you with this is there like you have to do everything yourself
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like you have to do everything yourself
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like you have to do everything yourself or what can they do I mean I think I
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or what can they do I mean I think I
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or what can they do I mean I think I think this is where it gets interesting
6:29
think this is where it gets interesting
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think this is where it gets interesting I think this is where it gets
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I think this is where it gets
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I think this is where it gets interesting for non-financial
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interesting for non-financial
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interesting for non-financial institutions as well uh and is that if
6:37
institutions as well uh and is that if
6:37
institutions as well uh and is that if we look at like if we look at the state
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we look at like if we look at the state
6:39
we look at like if we look at the state of the cloud when we started with cloud
6:40
of the cloud when we started with cloud
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of the cloud when we started with cloud in 2008 long ago yeah yeah long ago the
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in 2008 long ago yeah yeah long ago the
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in 2008 long ago yeah yeah long ago the the the one thing they provided was what
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the the one thing they provided was what
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the the one thing they provided was what everything else what everyone already
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everything else what everyone already
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everything else what everyone already had so you had virtual clouds we had
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had so you had virtual clouds we had
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had so you had virtual clouds we had virtual servers in the cloud you had
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virtual servers in the cloud you had
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virtual servers in the cloud you had virtual storage in the cloud you had uh
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virtual storage in the cloud you had uh
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virtual storage in the cloud you had uh then they moved on to they had managed
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then they moved on to they had managed
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then they moved on to they had managed databases was it was all standard stuff
7:00
databases was it was all standard stuff
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databases was it was all standard stuff so they started out with my SQL or or
7:03
so they started out with my SQL or or
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so they started out with my SQL or or post quest uh SQL Server your basic
7:07
post quest uh SQL Server your basic
7:07
post quest uh SQL Server your basic storage and compute and and database
7:11
storage and compute and and database
7:11
storage and compute and and database file storage dat to pull people over
7:13
file storage dat to pull people over
7:13
file storage dat to pull people over from like let's it's so the basic uh the
7:16
from like let's it's so the basic uh the
7:16
from like let's it's so the basic uh the selling point is that come to the cloud
7:18
selling point is that come to the cloud
7:18
selling point is that come to the cloud we have all the stuff that you're
7:18
we have all the stuff that you're
7:19
we have all the stuff that you're already using but it's easier yeah uh
7:21
already using but it's easier yeah uh
7:22
already using but it's easier yeah uh but now everyone has migrated to the
7:23
but now everyone has migrated to the
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but now everyone has migrated to the cloud so the cloud is now uh the
7:25
cloud so the cloud is now uh the
7:25
cloud so the cloud is now uh the starting point it's it's the first
7:27
starting point it's it's the first
7:27
starting point it's it's the first choice for everyone you don't start and
7:29
choice for everyone you don't start and
7:29
choice for everyone you don't start and move to the cloud Cloud you started in
7:30
move to the cloud Cloud you started in
7:30
move to the cloud Cloud you started in the cloud fair enough so I think now
7:32
the cloud fair enough so I think now
7:32
the cloud fair enough so I think now they're starting to
7:34
they're starting to
7:34
they're starting to offer they're they're trying to offer
7:36
offer they're they're trying to offer
7:36
offer they're they're trying to offer and they're they're um diversifying by
7:40
and they're they're um diversifying by
7:40
and they're they're um diversifying by offering their own services so now
7:42
offering their own services so now
7:42
offering their own services so now Amazon isn't pushing uh my SQL anymore
7:45
Amazon isn't pushing uh my SQL anymore
7:45
Amazon isn't pushing uh my SQL anymore they're pushing Amazon uh whatever D
7:48
they're pushing Amazon uh whatever D
7:48
they're pushing Amazon uh whatever D database they have Microsoft is well
7:50
database they have Microsoft is well
7:50
database they have Microsoft is well Microsoft is still pushing SQL server
7:53
Microsoft is still pushing SQL server
7:53
Microsoft is still pushing SQL server but they're also pushing for example
7:55
but they're also pushing for example
7:55
but they're also pushing for example there's Cosmos DB and there's there's
7:57
there's Cosmos DB and there's there's
7:57
there's Cosmos DB and there's there's plenty of others right yeah yeah
8:01
plenty of others right yeah yeah
8:01
plenty of others right yeah yeah I they pivoted that and now with the AI
8:03
I they pivoted that and now with the AI
8:03
I they pivoted that and now with the AI stuff they're they're pivoting their AI
8:04
stuff they're they're pivoting their AI
8:04
stuff they're they're pivoting their AI Training Services and their AI
8:06
Training Services and their AI
8:06
Training Services and their AI integration Services uh in the cloud
8:08
integration Services uh in the cloud
8:08
integration Services uh in the cloud because they're trying to make you
8:11
because they're trying to make you
8:11
because they're trying to make you basically buy into their Cloud because
8:12
basically buy into their Cloud because
8:12
basically buy into their Cloud because the further you buy into the cloud it's
8:14
the further you buy into the cloud it's
8:14
the further you buy into the cloud it's the harder is to leave the cloud and
8:17
the harder is to leave the cloud and
8:17
the harder is to leave the cloud and it's to keep you I I have a little
8:20
it's to keep you I I have a little
8:20
it's to keep you I I have a little nugget there uh somebody told me um that
8:23
nugget there uh somebody told me um that
8:23
nugget there uh somebody told me um that there is a a number they they have good
8:26
there is a a number they they have good
8:26
there is a a number they they have good statistics for this the cloud providers
8:29
statistics for this the cloud providers
8:29
statistics for this the cloud providers uh what number of services from a cloud
8:31
uh what number of services from a cloud
8:31
uh what number of services from a cloud provider does a company use before they
8:34
provider does a company use before they
8:34
provider does a company use before they will like never leave statistically at
8:36
will like never leave statistically at
8:36
will like never leave statistically at least right the number is much lower
8:38
least right the number is much lower
8:39
least right the number is much lower than we think it's five so yeah yeah you
8:42
than we think it's five so yeah yeah you
8:42
than we think it's five so yeah yeah you buy into five Services you're not gonna
8:44
buy into five Services you're not gonna
8:44
buy into five Services you're not gonna like oh we let's say you start with with
8:46
like oh we let's say you start with with
8:46
like oh we let's say you start with with AWS and you start using that and you
8:48
AWS and you start using that and you
8:48
AWS and you start using that and you have at least five Services running in
8:50
have at least five Services running in
8:50
have at least five Services running in in your in your company it's not like
8:52
in your in your company it's not like
8:52
in your in your company it's not like you're going to go like ah you know what
8:54
you're going to go like ah you know what
8:54
you're going to go like ah you know what we're actually G to shut this down and
8:55
we're actually G to shut this down and
8:55
we're actually G to shut this down and move over to to Google cloud or to a to
8:57
move over to to Google cloud or to a to
8:57
move over to to Google cloud or to a to Azure Cloud now nah it like at least
9:00
Azure Cloud now nah it like at least
9:00
Azure Cloud now nah it like at least statistically it doesn't happen yeah
9:03
statistically it doesn't happen yeah
9:03
statistically it doesn't happen yeah right
9:04
right
9:04
right and that's uh that's um I think if if
9:08
and that's uh that's um I think if if
9:08
and that's uh that's um I think if if you as a a when you're negotiating for
9:11
you as a a when you're negotiating for
9:11
you as a a when you're negotiating for for rebates or or
9:13
for rebates or or
9:13
for rebates or or discounts uh if they look at the the
9:16
discounts uh if they look at the the
9:16
discounts uh if they look at the the services you use and they can go like
9:18
services you use and they can go like
9:18
services you use and they can go like okay these guys are never leaving you're
9:20
okay these guys are never leaving you're
9:20
okay these guys are never leaving you're not going to get any
9:21
not going to get any
9:21
not going to get any discounts that's true that's absolutely
9:23
discounts that's true that's absolutely
9:23
discounts that's true that's absolutely right um so if if but uh I think I think
9:26
right um so if if but uh I think I think
9:26
right um so if if but uh I think I think it gets easier because um we have sort
9:30
it gets easier because um we have sort
9:30
it gets easier because um we have sort of standardized on containers uh and
9:33
of standardized on containers uh and
9:33
of standardized on containers uh and containers are even if the different
9:35
containers are even if the different
9:35
containers are even if the different container run times are different
9:37
container run times are different
9:37
container run times are different between the providers it's easier to
9:40
between the providers it's easier to
9:40
between the providers it's easier to migrate between provider provider run
9:41
migrate between provider provider run
9:41
migrate between provider provider run times than it is uh if you build your
9:44
times than it is uh if you build your
9:44
times than it is uh if you build your stuff on on uh say uh a state machine
9:48
stuff on on uh say uh a state machine
9:48
stuff on on uh say uh a state machine platform uh which you're never going to
9:50
platform uh which you're never going to
9:50
platform uh which you're never going to migrate away from and transfer that to
9:52
migrate away from and transfer that to
9:52
migrate away from and transfer that to someone else would you would you say
9:55
someone else would you would you say
9:55
someone else would you would you say that containerization technology in
9:58
that containerization technology in
9:58
that containerization technology in general
9:59
general
9:59
general uh was a play technically to to not get
10:04
uh was a play technically to to not get
10:04
uh was a play technically to to not get locked into any anyone anywhere you're
10:07
locked into any anyone anywhere you're
10:07
locked into any anyone anywhere you're not locked into anything you can move
10:09
not locked into anything you can move
10:09
not locked into anything you can move because you know standard I'm not sure
10:12
because you know standard I'm not sure
10:12
because you know standard I'm not sure actually I think it started with uh
10:15
actually I think it started with uh
10:15
actually I think it started with uh someone needed uh a way of running
10:18
someone needed uh a way of running
10:18
someone needed uh a way of running things in a repeatable
10:20
things in a repeatable
10:20
things in a repeatable environment uh that's yeah I think we
10:22
environment uh that's yeah I think we
10:22
environment uh that's yeah I think we got that effect I think it maybe it's
10:24
got that effect I think it maybe it's
10:24
got that effect I think it maybe it's just a bonus oh that's a bonus okay cool
10:28
just a bonus oh that's a bonus okay cool
10:28
just a bonus oh that's a bonus okay cool yeah so so technically again let's let's
10:30
yeah so so technically again let's let's
10:30
yeah so so technically again let's let's go a little closer on the thing that you
10:32
go a little closer on the thing that you
10:32
go a little closer on the thing that you need to to do you say you need to have
10:33
need to to do you say you need to have
10:33
need to to do you say you need to have an exit strategy all right yeah you need
10:36
an exit strategy all right yeah you need
10:36
an exit strategy all right yeah you need to have you need to have a plan you need
10:37
to have you need to have a plan you need
10:37
to have you need to have a plan you need to make sure that you within reasonable
10:40
to make sure that you within reasonable
10:40
to make sure that you within reasonable time and I don't think the Dora actually
10:43
time and I don't think the Dora actually
10:43
time and I don't think the Dora actually specifies the time frame but you need to
10:46
specifies the time frame but you need to
10:46
specifies the time frame but you need to have a plan of okay uh if my provider uh
10:51
have a plan of okay uh if my provider uh
10:51
have a plan of okay uh if my provider uh for whatever reason can't provide our
10:54
for whatever reason can't provide our
10:54
for whatever reason can't provide our services uh we are going to do this to
10:57
services uh we are going to do this to
10:57
services uh we are going to do this to get our stuff up and going somewhere
10:59
get our stuff up and going somewhere
10:59
get our stuff up and going somewhere else somewhere anywhere else okay yeah
11:02
else somewhere anywhere else okay yeah
11:02
else somewhere anywhere else okay yeah okay that makes doesn't that make it
11:06
okay that makes doesn't that make it
11:06
okay that makes doesn't that make it really difficult to use a specific like
11:08
really difficult to use a specific like
11:08
really difficult to use a specific like more proprietary uh platform dependent
11:11
more proprietary uh platform dependent
11:11
more proprietary uh platform dependent service like a again I I I'm going for
11:14
service like a again I I I'm going for
11:14
service like a again I I I'm going for Cosmos DB here or or any any anyone that
11:17
Cosmos DB here or or any any anyone that
11:17
Cosmos DB here or or any any anyone that is very specific to them to to the
11:19
is very specific to them to to the
11:20
is very specific to them to to the provider it does it does uh I mean it
11:24
provider it does it does uh I mean it
11:24
provider it does it does uh I mean it it's it's it's a good incentive to to
11:27
it's it's it's a good incentive to to
11:27
it's it's it's a good incentive to to stay on
11:29
stay on
11:29
stay on established open source uh software uh
11:32
established open source uh software uh
11:33
established open source uh software uh or or other available uh Services I mean
11:36
or or other available uh Services I mean
11:36
or or other available uh Services I mean it doesn't have to be open source you
11:37
it doesn't have to be open source you
11:37
it doesn't have to be open source you can for example you can get SQL server
11:39
can for example you can get SQL server
11:39
can for example you can get SQL server at any of the major Cloud providers you
11:40
at any of the major Cloud providers you
11:40
at any of the major Cloud providers you can buy or even at local
11:43
can buy or even at local
11:43
can buy or even at local ones uh but you can't get Cosmos DB uh
11:46
ones uh but you can't get Cosmos DB uh
11:46
ones uh but you can't get Cosmos DB uh anywhere else no you can't right so
11:49
anywhere else no you can't right so
11:49
anywhere else no you can't right so that's why like using that example if
11:51
that's why like using that example if
11:51
that's why like using that example if you go to to AWS they'll have they'll
11:53
you go to to AWS they'll have they'll
11:53
you go to to AWS they'll have they'll have a different one but it'll be sort
11:55
have a different one but it'll be sort
11:55
have a different one but it'll be sort of in the same space but it's not the
11:57
of in the same space but it's not the
11:57
of in the same space but it's not the same one you can't just one to one just
11:59
same one you can't just one to one just
11:59
same one you can't just one to one just migrate over no it doesn't work like
12:01
migrate over no it doesn't work like
12:01
migrate over no it doesn't work like that right but I think I think also then
12:03
that right but I think I think also then
12:03
that right but I think I think also then and this is where it gets really
12:04
and this is where it gets really
12:04
and this is where it gets really interesting is that I do think you
12:06
interesting is that I do think you
12:06
interesting is that I do think you should use some of the cloud native
12:09
should use some of the cloud native
12:09
should use some of the cloud native Services if they're good enough right
12:11
Services if they're good enough right
12:11
Services if they're good enough right let's say you you need a message bus or
12:13
let's say you you need a message bus or
12:13
let's say you you need a message bus or an or a message queue or something a
12:16
an or a message queue or something a
12:16
an or a message queue or something a work queue I definitely you should
12:18
work queue I definitely you should
12:18
work queue I definitely you should definitely look at whatever your cloud
12:20
definitely look at whatever your cloud
12:20
definitely look at whatever your cloud provider offers and use those but just
12:23
provider offers and use those but just
12:23
provider offers and use those but just make sure that they
12:25
make sure that they
12:25
make sure that they don't um that that you don't have traces
12:28
don't um that that you don't have traces
12:28
don't um that that you don't have traces of these services in the middle of your
12:31
of these services in the middle of your
12:31
of these services in the middle of your software The Edge layer your
12:33
software The Edge layer your
12:33
software The Edge layer your architecture uh ports and adapters
12:36
architecture uh ports and adapters
12:36
architecture uh ports and adapters hexagonal uh whatever you want to call
12:38
hexagonal uh whatever you want to call
12:38
hexagonal uh whatever you want to call it uh keep those uh outside your core
12:43
it uh keep those uh outside your core
12:43
it uh keep those uh outside your core right so now now it becomes more like an
12:45
right so now now it becomes more like an
12:45
right so now now it becomes more like an architectural concern and exactly
12:49
architectural concern and exactly
12:49
architectural concern and exactly dependency injection and things like
12:51
dependency injection and things like
12:51
dependency injection and things like that yeah interfaces
12:53
that yeah interfaces
12:53
that yeah interfaces abstractions uh and I think that goes I
12:57
abstractions uh and I think that goes I
12:57
abstractions uh and I think that goes I think that they can take you a long way
12:59
think that they can take you a long way
12:59
think that they can take you a long way because if you can replace your uh your
13:02
because if you can replace your uh your
13:02
because if you can replace your uh your Q layer uh maybe you can write two
13:05
Q layer uh maybe you can write two
13:05
Q layer uh maybe you can write two implementations maybe maybe you
13:07
implementations maybe maybe you
13:07
implementations maybe maybe you can uh you can actually have an
13:10
can uh you can actually have an
13:10
can uh you can actually have an implementation ready to go for a generic
13:12
implementation ready to go for a generic
13:12
implementation ready to go for a generic or for a a
13:14
or for a a
13:14
or for a a competitor uh I think if we're
13:17
competitor uh I think if we're
13:17
competitor uh I think if we're stretching this uh I don't think this is
13:19
stretching this uh I don't think this is
13:19
stretching this uh I don't think this is realistic in any way but wouldn't be
13:22
realistic in any way but wouldn't be
13:22
realistic in any way but wouldn't be interesting to try to run one Service uh
13:25
interesting to try to run one Service uh
13:25
interesting to try to run one Service uh on two different providers it would so
13:28
on two different providers it would so
13:28
on two different providers it would so like people like you and I would find
13:30
like people like you and I would find
13:30
like people like you and I would find that very very fascinating to to do like
13:33
that very very fascinating to to do like
13:33
that very very fascinating to to do like I mean we we have we we have I think
13:36
I mean we we have we we have I think
13:36
I mean we we have we we have I think it's standard out you have failover
13:37
it's standard out you have failover
13:37
it's standard out you have failover between servers of course what if we had
13:39
between servers of course what if we had
13:39
between servers of course what if we had failover between clouds I think that
13:41
failover between clouds I think that
13:41
failover between clouds I think that would be quite cool actually it would be
13:44
would be quite cool actually it would be
13:44
would be quite cool actually it would be very cool uh of course as we know that
13:47
very cool uh of course as we know that
13:47
very cool uh of course as we know that that's double the the coding double the
13:48
that's double the the coding double the
13:48
that's double the the coding double the maintenance double the I don't think
13:50
maintenance double the I don't think
13:50
maintenance double the I don't think it's practical but yeah maybe I I'll
13:52
it's practical but yeah maybe I I'll
13:52
it's practical but yeah maybe I I'll just try do that for fun
13:55
just try do that for fun
13:55
just try do that for fun sometime okay so so so you have to so
13:59
sometime okay so so so you have to so
13:59
sometime okay so so so you have to so you have to prove I suppose if there is
14:02
you have to prove I suppose if there is
14:02
you have to prove I suppose if there is like is there an audit like do you have
14:03
like is there an audit like do you have
14:03
like is there an audit like do you have to like prove we have the strategy ready
14:05
to like prove we have the strategy ready
14:05
to like prove we have the strategy ready to go like we can I think you need to
14:07
to go like we can I think you need to
14:07
to go like we can I think you need to provide you need to be able to provide
14:08
provide you need to be able to provide
14:08
provide you need to be able to provide the documents if there's not it okay you
14:11
the documents if there's not it okay you
14:11
the documents if there's not it okay you need to have the the required
14:12
need to have the the required
14:12
need to have the the required documentation they're satisfied that you
14:14
documentation they're satisfied that you
14:14
documentation they're satisfied that you have thought this through yeah but I
14:17
have thought this through yeah but I
14:17
have thought this through yeah but I think there are other aspects of this
14:19
think there are other aspects of this
14:19
think there are other aspects of this that we need to consider as well and
14:20
that we need to consider as well and
14:20
that we need to consider as well and that when it comes to do your own your
14:24
that when it comes to do your own your
14:24
that when it comes to do your own your data um especially your
14:27
data um especially your
14:27
data um especially your backups because we I've we've seen a few
14:29
backups because we I've we've seen a few
14:29
backups because we I've we've seen a few cases uh recently where people where the
14:33
cases uh recently where people where the
14:33
cases uh recently where people where the um companies or or the the entities did
14:37
um companies or or the the entities did
14:37
um companies or or the the entities did not own their own backups they didn't
14:39
not own their own backups they didn't
14:39
not own their own backups they didn't control their backups so they lost them
14:41
control their backups so they lost them
14:41
control their backups so they lost them uh one of it's pretty close to you in
14:45
uh one of it's pretty close to you in
14:45
uh one of it's pretty close to you in vinga uh their provider uh there was a
14:48
vinga uh their provider uh there was a
14:48
vinga uh their provider uh there was a major hack uh a Swedish cloud provider
14:52
major hack uh a Swedish cloud provider
14:52
major hack uh a Swedish cloud provider uh they lost all their data and the
14:55
uh they lost all their data and the
14:55
uh they lost all their data and the backups no and they had to uh they had
14:58
backups no and they had to uh they had
14:58
backups no and they had to uh they had to hunt around for papers and other tra
15:01
to hunt around for papers and other tra
15:01
to hunt around for papers and other tra uh Paper Trails and and other data to
15:04
uh Paper Trails and and other data to
15:04
uh Paper Trails and and other data to try to recreate all the data I they took
15:07
try to recreate all the data I they took
15:07
try to recreate all the data I they took them like six months uh because they
15:09
them like six months uh because they
15:09
them like six months uh because they they didn't have their backups off site
15:11
they didn't have their backups off site
15:11
they didn't have their backups off site all all their data and all their backups
15:12
all all their data and all their backups
15:12
all all their data and all their backups were in the same place at their provider
15:15
were in the same place at their provider
15:15
were in the same place at their provider that's well I mean to be honest that's
15:18
that's well I mean to be honest that's
15:18
that's well I mean to be honest that's actually they it's their own fault
15:20
actually they it's their own fault
15:20
actually they it's their own fault completely yeah it is stupid abely you
15:23
completely yeah it is stupid abely you
15:23
completely yeah it is stupid abely you can pay the price right yeah and it's
15:25
can pay the price right yeah and it's
15:25
can pay the price right yeah and it's the same with I mean it it shouldn't
15:27
the same with I mean it it shouldn't
15:28
the same with I mean it it shouldn't happen but it can happen
15:29
happen but it can happen
15:29
happen but it can happen and we had the same uh I don't recall
15:32
and we had the same uh I don't recall
15:32
and we had the same uh I don't recall exactly when it was but it was an
15:34
exactly when it was but it was an
15:34
exactly when it was but it was an Australian pension fund uh they were
15:37
Australian pension fund uh they were
15:37
Australian pension fund uh they were hosted they had all the stuff on on
15:38
hosted they had all the stuff on on
15:38
hosted they had all the stuff on on Google cloud and then someone hit the
15:41
Google cloud and then someone hit the
15:41
Google cloud and then someone hit the wrong button and uh hard deleted all
15:44
wrong button and uh hard deleted all
15:45
wrong button and uh hard deleted all their Google Cloud
15:46
their Google Cloud
15:46
their Google Cloud accounts no at Google so someone at
15:49
accounts no at Google so someone at
15:49
accounts no at Google so someone at Google uh not even themselves no not
15:52
Google uh not even themselves no not
15:52
Google uh not even themselves no not even themselves everything was just gone
15:54
even themselves everything was just gone
15:54
even themselves everything was just gone no confirmation not anything all the
15:56
no confirmation not anything all the
15:56
no confirmation not anything all the data was just gone I'm sorry laughy
15:59
data was just gone I'm sorry laughy
15:59
data was just gone I'm sorry laughy that's horrible that's horrible that's
16:02
that's horrible that's horrible that's
16:02
that's horrible that's horrible that's the Ultimate Nightmare yeah it was a lot
16:04
the Ultimate Nightmare yeah it was a lot
16:04
the Ultimate Nightmare yeah it was a lot of people who do because it's a pension
16:06
of people who do because it's a pension
16:06
of people who do because it's a pension fund uh pensioners didn't get their
16:08
fund uh pensioners didn't get their
16:08
fund uh pensioners didn't get their money paid out no and they also didn't
16:11
money paid out no and they also didn't
16:11
money paid out no and they also didn't have any backups elsewhere everything
16:13
have any backups elsewhere everything
16:13
have any backups elsewhere everything was on Google and I mean okay you don't
16:15
was on Google and I mean okay you don't
16:16
was on Google and I mean okay you don't expect Google to delete all your data
16:18
expect Google to delete all your data
16:18
expect Google to delete all your data not at all and they didn't want to I
16:21
not at all and they didn't want to I
16:21
not at all and they didn't want to I think maybe they managed to restore it
16:23
think maybe they managed to restore it
16:23
think maybe they managed to restore it but I I consider that lucky yeah well
16:26
but I I consider that lucky yeah well
16:26
but I I consider that lucky yeah well all right so so essentially that we're
16:28
all right so so essentially that we're
16:28
all right so so essentially that we're we're good and scared you you you you
16:32
we're good and scared you you you you
16:32
we're good and scared you you you you need to have a strategy for this and
16:34
need to have a strategy for this and
16:34
need to have a strategy for this and straty and I think you also need you
16:35
straty and I think you also need you
16:35
straty and I think you also need you need to have I mean uh I I back my up my
16:38
need to have I mean uh I I back my up my
16:38
need to have I mean uh I I back my up my own data I keep it at three places it's
16:40
own data I keep it at three places it's
16:40
own data I keep it at three places it's two offsites and one local and the
16:42
two offsites and one local and the
16:42
two offsites and one local and the offsites are different providers and
16:44
offsites are different providers and
16:44
offsites are different providers and there you go I think that's a bare
16:46
there you go I think that's a bare
16:46
there you go I think that's a bare minimum for uh if you're if you consider
16:49
minimum for uh if you're if you consider
16:49
minimum for uh if you're if you consider yourself a
16:50
yourself a
16:50
yourself a serious company I think you should also
16:54
serious company I think you should also
16:54
serious company I think you should also have your data backed up at at least two
16:57
have your data backed up at at least two
16:57
have your data backed up at at least two different providers just in
17:00
different providers just in
17:00
different providers just in case I mean we have seen anything can
17:03
case I mean we have seen anything can
17:03
case I mean we have seen anything can happen anything can happen right yeah
17:06
happen anything can happen right yeah
17:06
happen anything can happen right yeah that's that's really
17:09
that's that's really
17:09
that's that's really U I think a lot more than than most
17:12
U I think a lot more than than most
17:12
U I think a lot more than than most almost all companies uh nobody thinks
17:16
almost all companies uh nobody thinks
17:16
almost all companies uh nobody thinks like this right I'm me no I think this
17:18
like this right I'm me no I think this
17:18
like this right I'm me no I think this is um yeah I think it's quite uncommon
17:21
is um yeah I think it's quite uncommon
17:21
is um yeah I think it's quite uncommon you you checked the backup button on the
17:24
you you checked the backup button on the
17:24
you you checked the backup button on the cloud interface for your datase and then
17:26
cloud interface for your datase and then
17:26
cloud interface for your datase and then you're fine because then you have
17:27
you're fine because then you have
17:27
you're fine because then you have backups yeah
17:29
backups yeah
17:29
backups yeah hey I I worked at the company once where
17:31
hey I I worked at the company once where
17:31
hey I I worked at the company once where the backup was a computer standing next
17:34
the backup was a computer standing next
17:34
the backup was a computer standing next to the
17:35
to the
17:35
to the server that's perect really really
17:37
server that's perect really really
17:37
server that's perect really really secure in case of fire that's absolutely
17:40
secure in case of fire that's absolutely
17:40
secure in case of fire that's absolutely perfect yes yeah all right well okay so
17:45
perfect yes yeah all right well okay so
17:45
perfect yes yeah all right well okay so so what how how big of a job is this to
17:48
so what how how big of a job is this to
17:48
so what how how big of a job is this to like implement this thing like final
17:50
like implement this thing like final
17:50
like implement this thing like final final thing I think it depends a lot on
17:52
final thing I think it depends a lot on
17:52
final thing I think it depends a lot on on where you're at I think a lot of
17:54
on where you're at I think a lot of
17:54
on where you're at I think a lot of financial institutions in Europe should
17:57
financial institutions in Europe should
17:57
financial institutions in Europe should or have been scrambling uh because I
17:59
or have been scrambling uh because I
17:59
or have been scrambling uh because I don't think their architecture is set up
18:01
don't think their architecture is set up
18:01
don't think their architecture is set up for moving away from wherever they are
18:03
for moving away from wherever they are
18:03
for moving away from wherever they are and I think also a lot of them are
18:05
and I think also a lot of them are
18:05
and I think also a lot of them are moving towards the cloud and towards
18:08
moving towards the cloud and towards
18:08
moving towards the cloud and towards lockin uh from on Prem
18:11
lockin uh from on Prem
18:11
lockin uh from on Prem environments
18:13
environments
18:13
environments which probably are more um uh movable
18:18
which probably are more um uh movable
18:18
which probably are more um uh movable than if you lock in yeah uh but on the
18:21
than if you lock in yeah uh but on the
18:21
than if you lock in yeah uh but on the other hand I mean that means that if
18:23
other hand I mean that means that if
18:23
other hand I mean that means that if they are moving towards the cloud
18:24
they are moving towards the cloud
18:24
they are moving towards the cloud they're
18:25
they're
18:25
they're probably uh adapting their their current
18:28
probably uh adapting their their current
18:28
probably uh adapting their their current chitecture or software to where they can
18:30
chitecture or software to where they can
18:30
chitecture or software to where they can move to the cloud so hopefully that
18:32
move to the cloud so hopefully that
18:32
move to the cloud so hopefully that means they can um take the same steps
18:36
means they can um take the same steps
18:36
means they can um take the same steps and move somewhere else they are
18:38
and move somewhere else they are
18:38
and move somewhere else they are preparing but I've seen a lot of code
18:40
preparing but I've seen a lot of code
18:40
preparing but I've seen a lot of code bases that are nowhere near ready to to
18:42
bases that are nowhere near ready to to
18:42
bases that are nowhere near ready to to run on anything other than what they
18:44
run on anything other than what they
18:44
run on anything other than what they were written for exactly exactly well
18:48
were written for exactly exactly well
18:48
were written for exactly exactly well that's that's so essentially standard
18:51
that's that's so essentially standard
18:51
that's that's so essentially standard use standard things open source things
18:53
use standard things open source things
18:53
use standard things open source things uh make sure your architecture has you
18:55
uh make sure your architecture has you
18:55
uh make sure your architecture has you know the providers with interfaces and
18:58
know the providers with interfaces and
18:58
know the providers with interfaces and that's that sort of implementation then
19:01
that's that sort of implementation then
19:01
that's that sort of implementation then technically you might be in a shape for
19:05
technically you might be in a shape for
19:05
technically you might be in a shape for a a
19:06
a a
19:06
a a move yeah I think so if you if you keep
19:09
move yeah I think so if you if you keep
19:09
move yeah I think so if you if you keep your architecture clean uh and and
19:12
your architecture clean uh and and
19:12
your architecture clean uh and and separate separations of concerns and and
19:14
separate separations of concerns and and
19:14
separate separations of concerns and and layering and all that I think you're in
19:16
layering and all that I think you're in
19:16
layering and all that I think you're in a good spot good perfect well I want to
19:19
a good spot good perfect well I want to
19:19
a good spot good perfect well I want to really really thank you uh Ronis for
19:21
really really thank you uh Ronis for
19:22
really really thank you uh Ronis for being on the show today this was
19:24
being on the show today this was
19:24
being on the show today this was absolutely excellent and very important
19:26
absolutely excellent and very important
19:26
absolutely excellent and very important topic and U happy to have you uh again
19:28
topic and U happy to have you uh again
19:28
topic and U happy to have you uh again sometime on the cloud show yeah happy to
19:31
sometime on the cloud show yeah happy to
19:31
sometime on the cloud show yeah happy to return it was a pleasure thank you and
19:34
return it was a pleasure thank you and
19:34
return it was a pleasure thank you and audience we'll see you next time on the
19:36
audience we'll see you next time on the
19:36
audience we'll see you next time on the cloud show
19:39
cloud show
19:39
cloud show [Music]
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