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Coinweek Streaming News: Let's Talk High End Eisenhower Dollars (with James Sego)
Nov 17, 2022
Charles Morgan and James Sego team up to talk about the current state of the high end Ike dollar market and to show off some interesting high end Eisenhower dollars that James will use to anchor a brand new Top Tier Collection.
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0:00
sorry all right
0:14
all right let's give this a go all right yeah you sound good now so all
0:20
right cool and I hear zero back out with all on my side
0:26
just gonna make sure that uh I can see what's going on here
0:32
so so hey James uh thanks for joining me on the stream here we're going to talk about
0:38
Ike dollars so I'm excited it's been a while since I've talked about ice
0:43
and uh yeah it seems like the Market's changed quite a bit
0:49
in the past few years and um yeah so there's no doubt the
0:57
Market's changed I mean I think you know the the demand for the high-end Ikes has always been there and it it'll continue
1:03
to be there and it seems like there's a lot of folks that are collecting it I mean if you
1:08
just look at the populations that have gone up the prices have held pretty steady and tells me that people like them so when we were at uh the Baltimore
1:16
show and uh or is it the Annie we're at the a a
1:22
weren't we we were at a a correct you told me that you're thinking about
1:27
putting together a new Ike dollar collection so yeah so for people who don't know
1:34
tell me about your last site dollar collection yeah the last set I had gosh took me forever to put together and I I
1:41
probably started putting that together in 1986-87 and uh didn't even realize what I was doing at that point but I
1:47
wanted the really nice coins and you know it took me a while to find the various dates to find the best quality
1:54
that I could possibly find and that was kind of right when PCGS started grading coins so they were mostly raw at that
2:00
point then I started getting a few graded and I said wow these are pretty high grade coins let me see if I can complete the set and put it together in
2:06
the ultimate High grades and you know it took probably 10 or 12 years to do that and I ended up with at that point the
2:13
the nicest finest known set of ices that were in existence and I would think that most of those coins are still the nicest
2:19
and finest known coins but I've since sold that set so so when you're building that said I mean
2:25
the thing that's great about Ike dollars is a lot of these coins are being made while you go along I mean you must have
2:31
been searching through tons of roles and mint sets to find these coins and uh so
2:39
much wasn't known about that what was out there I mean you had the peacock hikes you had all these 67 67 pluses
2:46
that have come along the woodwork do you think the Ike dollar series is the kind of series that is mature now or
2:53
do you think there's a lot of undiscovered coins out there you know I think it's a relatively
2:58
mature uh series I mean I'm sure like any other series there's going to be coins that surface over time and they
3:05
made a lot of hikes but if you really look at the high end Ikes I mean they're they're pretty rare to find a nice clad
3:10
Ike that's that's marked free I mean particularly when you get into the 67th grade and some of the early peanuts and
3:17
66th grade are very difficult to find as well uh Mark free with a nice luster and all that good stuff but uh yeah I think
3:24
it's a relatively mature series and you know as it gets older more and more people are going to start collecting it
3:30
I mean I think about how old the peace dollar series was when I started buying Ike's from the mint and it was 30 years
3:35
old at that point in time and now you have over 50 years device so I I think
3:41
it'll come on and you know people still are looking for them and and like I said there's still a demand for the the
3:47
high-end Ikes I mean and and as long as the prices hold up and the demands there and you're not going to find tons and
3:53
tons of them I I think you'll be in a pretty good equal beer market for a while so well let's look at some coins I
4:00
got a few here I got I'm gonna mix some coins I had lying around and and some of these PQ coins that I picked up from you
4:08
so we're gonna start with the 1971.
4:13
let's see let me flip it over here yeah not quite centered there but
4:19
yeah yeah so so on on this coin
4:25
this is a 71p and I made this coin
4:32
yeah you see it's a little flat here but yeah it looks like a little Haze on it that's developed or
4:38
right so so this coin came from an original roll uh-huh
4:45
and uh cool thing about this role
4:52
is that uh the coins came 65-66
4:58
which is really unusual which is yeah which is unusual I mean the the reality to get mint State 71 and 72 hikes they
5:06
have to come out of rolls because they were never put in midsets so the DeMent released them all in bags
5:11
and some of the dealers way back when put them in rolls and that's where you're going to find the nice material
5:17
and obviously the role that you had had to have been put together a long time ago before people really were grading
5:23
hikes I mean it's almost impossible to find a role like that nowadays even with 65s in it that's still a tough coin 66
5:30
is even tougher for sure right
5:37
yeah that one looks a little better I mean it doesn't look like it has the haze that the last one had and I mean looking at the picture there looks like
5:43
that might even be a little bit undergraded by today's standards so because you have pretty nice strike on it luster seems pretty adequate I'm sure
5:51
the reverse is pretty nice as well so yeah let's leave it on here a second to talk about this role
5:56
so the interesting if thing about this role is I got it from the catalog dealer
6:02
and uh here's a deal that really wasn't known for Quality more uh you know AUB
6:09
slider type of coins but uh he sold me this role
6:14
for about five dollars a coin okay so that was a good deal for me
6:20
but sure you have one that's even nicer and this is a
6:27
66. so yeah so
6:32
literally a better coin I mean it looks like it's a has a little better luster than the coins out of the Roll that you
6:38
had that you showed the 265s and and this coin is definitely a lot cleaner as well so when you start looking at Ike
6:45
grades I mean there's really the same factors you look at in grading on all coins but how's the strike of the coin
6:50
how's the luster and the luster is a big determinant and then obviously the bag marks and and that's 66 certainly has a
6:58
nice lost or a little bit weak on the strike so the coin could be improved I mean My Set coin that I had originally
7:03
was a lot better than that 66 and it's probably in a 66 plus holder today
7:09
um certainly like to find a 66 plus to put in my set but at this point that's the one that I have so
7:16
right so on on this coin here a couple of things that stand out to me
7:27
you know a couple of things that stand out to me on this coin is that
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usually you have a strike that's kind of softer around the edges
7:38
and this is especially true for the P the demons but on this coin it's pretty well struck
7:45
up it's uh it's got a lot of flash to it these clad coins tend to get subdued
7:53
uh they turn kind of like a like a slatey color or a little bit of
7:58
purple yeah and uh so this one's bright white yeah and it's it's a nice coin and I
8:06
mean clad you typically don't dip because you're going to ruin the luster to it and it's going to have a strange
8:11
look so you know my opinion is that's an original coin that has not been messed with or processed
8:17
and like you said I mean those are all the factors that go into that coin being a 66 I mean it's just a a nice coin
8:24
overall so and and both sides are nice as well so I mean that that helps quite a bit
8:30
obviously the obverse is the main factor in the grade but if you had a really baggy reverse that can draw the the
8:36
front of the grade down a little bit as well so when you think you need to coins guys
8:42
65 the ones I showed those are not typical uh they're not meant set coins they're
8:47
not available in huge abundance I haven't seen a 71p bag in I don't know
8:54
when's the last time you've seen the 71p bag well it's been years in fact I'm not even sure I've seen a 71p bag rolls for
9:00
sure but not a bag right so when you get these coin I mean you're looking at
9:06
either a use lighters or if you're lucky they're threes and fours
9:12
and that's definitely the typical grade of these I mean you look at what comes into the local coin shops and and they
9:18
are all aubu they're banged up and somebody's had them in a drawer they've had them in a little you know purse with
9:25
other coins in it and it it's hard to even find a 71p that I would call a nice
9:31
bu coin and that's why today there were five or six bucks a piece to the some of
9:36
the telemarketers to find just a decent bu coin you go back a few years ago they were two dollar coins so you know quite
9:43
an increase and if you think about it five six bucks for a a clad Ike that has no intrinsic metal value in it that's
9:49
actually a pretty good price so James like it used to be that 66 was the top pop and now we have 2 and 67 uh
9:58
one sold at the uh April 2022 sax power sell for about ten thousand
10:03
that coin I think had a Oliver green toning uh do you like the 67s do you think that
10:10
they're going to be more 67s in the near term you know I I think you may see a few
10:16
more that show up um as long as the grading scale stays where it is I I'm not sure you're going
10:21
to see too many particularly in the early payments um those are really difficult to find in six plus or 67 I mean there's a handful
10:28
out there as you point out but but there's certainly not that many and I mean even if you were to find 10 or 15
10:34
roles you know as your experience showed you might get one six out of you know 10
10:39
rolls but you're certainly going to be hard-pressed to find a seven and I think if you do find something in that grade
10:45
it's going to have to have a little bit of color it's got to have all the other attributes that typically would go with the higher grades and you know maybe you
10:51
find a set that somebody hand-picked and put together in an album years and years ago that's got some toning on it that's
10:58
probably where you're going to find those type coins but you're not going to find 10 or 15 of them in that grade over
11:03
the next five or ten years it's just not going to happen so so we have two questions from the chat James uh the
11:10
first one is uh what is your definition of a high-end so it really depends so if I go into the
11:18
pments uh the early payments you know I think a 66 or 66 plus would be a
11:23
high-end hike if you look at the price points you're probably talking 500 and up you know that I would classify as a
11:30
high-end Ike and then you go to the demons 71 D you can find a nice 66 for
11:36
100 you know if you get a six plus or a seven then you're getting over a thousand dollars for those coins
11:43
um so it just depends on the date and the populations and the price but I think it's more of a price thing
11:48
um and then also a great thing depending on P or demon so second question and
11:54
this one a little pointed question here a person in chat says that they can't even give away graded Ike's at coin
12:01
shows so let's talk about the types of ices that you can't give away at a coin show
12:07
and how is that different than the material we're talking about yeah so I I mean I don't know what
12:13
grades this person has but I would think typically they would be the lower grades that are probably under 15 20 30 in
12:20
value you do have to find a collector form and a lot of times you don't see that many Ike collectors it shows I mean
12:26
I find that you can sell most of that type material online because you have a
12:32
broader audience but it shows you know I think it's maybe a little more of the traditional collector that's at a show
12:37
and and I'm not sure the traditional collector is has gone into the ike series I mean it's still a a little bit
12:44
of a niche market even though it's matured quite a bit and it's grown a lot in the last 10 years so and I will say
12:50
the uh the proof market for Ike dollars is you know one of these markets that it's
12:56
pretty much not going to return you anything uh almost every coin gets graded proof 69d
13:04
cam and there's a wide variety of high-end and low-end coins in that in
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that grade and and I I don't see that becoming uh good at place to be
13:17
even the 70 coins yeah for sure and you know when you talk about the proofs as you point out the
13:24
the proofs basically all come nice I mean the silver ones will get some kind
13:29
of you know toning bluish toning in the the brown pack and those might need to be dipped to make them black and white
13:35
and the collectors really prefer the black and white coins The Plaid proofs that come out of the proof sets
13:40
typically are pretty nice and as you point out probably 80 percent of what you would send in if you just bottom and
13:46
cracked them out of the sets with grade 69 and that's why they're they're worth 20 a piece I mean you know they're worth
13:52
what the coins worth and maybe a little bit more because of the grading and you do get some 70s in the 70s or nice coins
13:58
but as you've seen over the last 10 years the populations have gone up dramatically and as the populations have
14:04
gone up the prices have come down and when you could probably put a decent 70 Cent together for
14:09
five or six thousand bucks there's one or two stopper coins that they haven't graded that many of but for the most
14:15
part the the common date coins and 70 are under under 500 at this point so and
14:21
and they're nice coins you know and they're definitely better than the 69s I'm not sure I would put a lot of money there because they're going to grade
14:27
more and and there's plenty of them sitting there I mean I have tons and tons of them in my office in my safe
14:33
room and at some point I'll send those off for grading and probably get some 70s because I've saved just a really big
14:39
deep cams and uh I'm sure the quality of those coins is pretty solid as well so and I can speak from experience I've
14:46
made 70s but uh the 78 dollars not the same
14:51
quality as The Silver Eagle uh no technology was different strike was different the proof
14:57
you'd have to get to like a 78 hike to even remotely come close to the early
15:03
silver eagles yep there's no question and uh as you point out the the late 77 you start
15:09
getting some really good quality decams in almost every coin in the 77-78 uh
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proof sets are all deep cameos so that's not really the issue as you point out it's just the minting and the handling
15:21
of those coins I mean they all have a little something somewhere on them and uh through our stickering service I mean
15:27
we've certainly stickered some coins in 70 but uh very few that we see that we really truly like is 70 coins in in the
15:34
ike Series so right so uh let's move on talk about 71d
15:40
a little bit so sure yeah it's a coin for my set here
15:47
my current I don't really care about the grade set yeah
15:53
and uh this is a 71 day not a friendly Eagle to serve straight reverse
15:59
and here you can see this issue that I was talking about this die sink
16:04
so you're looking at a little bit of softness or depression
16:09
around the rim and it impacts the The Motto especially
16:16
the in and see and Trust and the bottom of the date and yeah for sure even on 67s
16:24
yeah and it's just part of the strike right it's I mean they made a lot of coins I mean the clad material is very
16:31
hard material so it uh when the the coins were struck you know the with the hard material it's hard for all that to
16:38
to come through the dyes and I'm sure the strike pressure was a little different you know as they look at the
16:45
uh the different uh you know as they make them so you will get some variety in terms of how that strike looks I mean
16:51
the coin you're putting up there I think that's my 67 but the strike there is pretty pretty nice compared to the one
16:57
that you res you you just had up there so you can get some coins that are very well struck it's just a matter of
17:04
looking for them and then to find the nice strike along with nice luster along with minimal bag marks that's the the
17:11
trouble with getting 67s although this particular date along with the 74 D is
17:17
the most common coin in high grade and I would say that across the board 65 66 67
17:23
clearly all the nice coins are are 71 DS or 70 4ds
17:28
yeah and like I said when we're looking at this piece you know there's just a slight bit of like luster break I guess
17:35
in the highest points um but the 71d I always looked at this as
17:40
the uh it's like the sixth it's like the 71p minus one
17:47
so if you're a 67 coin prices comparable to a 66 71p
17:54
yes yeah and I think that's probably a good rule of thumb for sure so uh and and one of the great things about
18:00
these uh 71 pieces they they are some of the nicest looking ice in the series
18:09
yeah and the Luster's typically pretty good on them you know the issue is you have a little of a low relief design
18:15
compared to the 70 73 in on coins and some of the 72 PS obviously are high
18:21
relief as well and we can talk about that in a few minutes but uh the the low relief design kind of leads it to not
18:28
look as nice as some of the later coins but if you look at you know what's there on the coin the the lack of bag marks
18:35
and you know back to the strike and luster I mean you can still find some super pieces in the 71 DS
18:41
right so let's look at this one a little bit more here so one of the things about this coin
18:47
that I think you have to look for is if you look at
18:53
the bottom left near the rim you'll see a little bit of a star field of specs uh
19:00
we call that a kneeling shatter that's res that's basically what's left on the coin plan should
19:07
after the coin was struck and sometimes this will be on the jawline
19:13
are on the forehead they're definitely in the fields and if it's too severe it will limit the grade
19:20
yeah no question I mean you're looking at overall high appeal right and and those factors that you point out do
19:26
impact what the overall I appeal of the coin is so and then here on the rivers again you
19:32
see same one in Reverse I mean very well struck coin and uh again it's a low
19:37
relief eagle and uh lower Leaf overall design so it doesn't have the pop that you would have on some of the later date
19:43
hikes but this coin's pretty well struck for what it is and certainly the luster and bag marks uh would be conducive of
19:50
the grade that's assigned to that coin right it's definitely a really
19:58
really yeah and they they certainly come nicer as 67s I mean this is an average quality 67 but you know I certainly
20:05
agree with the grade on it I think it is a seven but you know kind of a mid-tier seven so
20:14
so on the 71s you have a situation
20:19
where and unless you and I collector you wouldn't know this but the uh the fact of the matter is
20:26
that the coins didn't come that nice the mint put a letter in with every single one of these that said
20:33
that the uh you know the coins were struck as if they were intended for circulation uh they will come with bag
20:41
marks a lot of times so the it's like the planchets weren't cleaned properly and you'll just see just this ugly nasty
20:48
looking coin they tarnished very easily um full of bag marks is really it's
20:55
really as if they were making a circulation strike and then in 72 you see I guess it must have been
21:03
due to the complaints or whatever that the mint got because they were selling these sort of exorbitant amount of money
21:09
and the coins started to look like specimen strikes after that you know they were like yeah there's no
21:15
doubt the quality improved yeah the quality improved dramatically after the 71 in fact I mean if you just
21:22
look at the populations I mean look at 68 populations and it's extremely low for a 71s compared to the other dates
21:29
in fact uh it was probably 10 years ago I think maybe they made the first 68 I
21:34
think there's six or seven coins in 68 now of which you and I have looked at a few of them and I'm not sure we agree
21:40
with the 68 crate on them even though they might be the best 71s but as you point out I mean the processing that the
21:47
mint had on them was not good I don't think they handled them well I mean you get a lot of watermarks on these coins a
21:53
lot of them in the original packaging has some really nasty blue toning on it
21:58
and that typically needs to be dipped off for the grading services to grade them but even to find a Coin that I
22:05
would grade 67 in the blue pack hike at a show at Raw right now almost impossible
22:11
um you know that's a great coin in high grade for sure for all the reasons that you'll point out and they claim that
22:17
there's a 69 which that seems like science fiction to me yeah I would think it is I mean that
22:23
might be a population report error um there's certainly no picture in coin facts of that coin we're talking PCGS 69
22:30
as well and uh I'd like to see the coin I'd love to see a 71 best in 69. in fact
22:37
I'd like to see one that I really agree with the 68 grade because it would be an awesome coin that's for sure so
22:43
let's go to the dates where these silver coins actually did come nice so sure
22:48
I have two coins that you gave me these are 72 S's um 74s I have here is similar in strike
22:55
characteristics um but uh but if the 73 I think is an
23:02
oddball in that three-year run I think that they come different but uh here is a 74 s with a 67 with a QA check
23:12
okay yeah and I mean that's as you point out I mean the quality improved dramatically for all the 72 threes and
23:19
fours the 73s are a little harder to find a nice grade than the 72s and fours and then for that matter the 72 is a
23:26
little bit easier than the 74 and the population numbers would bear that out but that's a nice 74 S I mean it's uh
23:32
walls truck you've got great luster on it uh not many bag marks on it and no
23:38
other issues to speak of in terms of you know toning or carbon spots or anything like that that sometimes can be on these
23:46
silver coins so so it's a pretty solid coin yeah I would say that when you're looking at a blue pack
23:52
a coin with a nice eye appeal is probably going to be your 67.
24:00
yeah correct and you also have to have the absence of bag marks I mean typically you don't have strike issues
24:06
in the silver coins because they're silver so the metal is a little bit softer and so you typically are going to
24:13
find wall struck coins particularly in these uh the mint State silver early ones
24:18
but uh yeah it's I think a little bit uh difficult there so all right so now
24:24
let's move on to a better a better coin this is
24:30
this is a 69. okay yeah so looking at it on the screen it
24:36
looks like there's a couple little uh imperfections there I don't know if that's in the holder or not but uh if you look at that coin there's really no
24:43
marks at all on that coin to speak of I mean there's a little Mark there on the forehead right by the hairline the
24:49
strike on the coin is is phenomenal the luster on the coin is phenomenal and the overall eye appeal is phenomenal and and
24:55
that's primarily what PCGS goes off of they're they're looking at what's the initial I appeal impression of the coin
25:01
and obviously strike and luster I really impact that and then bag Mark's impact
25:07
that I appeal as well but that coin's a really nice piece and hard to find I
25:12
mean you look through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these in the blue pack Ikes and it's hard to find a
25:18
68 nowadays I mean it used to be if you go back 20 years ago you could find 68s because people didn't care about them
25:23
people weren't grading them and the prices weren't what they are but a nice 69 8 now is three to four thousand
25:30
dollars on a 72 the most common 69. so you think about it that's a pretty
25:35
valuable coin that somebody could go buy at a show for ten dollars and cherry pick that so
25:41
um you know they're they're out there but they're they're far and few between for sure and the thing that I think I
25:46
want to reiterate about this is we think about ms69 so we're thinking about Silver Eagles big silver coins in
25:52
69. the the technology being deployed to strike this coin is different than the
25:59
silver eagle and a 69 on an Ike is a special coin whereas the 69 of Silver
26:05
Eagles a run-of-the-mill coin right so correct that is absolutely characteristic
26:12
yeah no doubt and I mean if you look at the quality of these compared to the silver eagles the quality is similar but
26:18
the average coin is not of this type quality uh for the blue pack ice I mean
26:24
they were not handled the way the the uh the silver eagles were handled by the men so
26:30
how frequently do Nelson blue packs might be a 69 or
26:38
probably even a little greater than that I would think I mean it's certainly a rare coin to find them I mean if if you
26:45
had all the blue packs from when they made them in 72 your number's probably right if you look at what people have
26:50
gone through nowadays you're not going to find that many fresh blue packs it'd probably take you three or four thousand
26:55
to find one this nice 68s I think you can find 67 certainly you can find and
27:01
the values are corresponding to how easy they are to find I mean a 72 and 67's of
27:07
30 to 40 dollar coin and in 68 it's you know 100 maybe 150 for a really nice one
27:13
and as we pointed out about three four thousand dollars for 69. so how many 69s
27:19
have you made James do you know I I've only made two or three I mean it's it's a hard coin to make I've I've
27:25
bought a fair amount of them um that other people have made because we do make a market in them and I love
27:31
to buy them because 69s are pretty easy to sell um as long as you're within whatever the the normal price parameters but uh yeah
27:38
that's a tough coin um 72 threes and fours I mean I've made all those but uh the threes and fours
27:45
are even harder to make than the 72s for sure 72 is clearly the 81s uh Morgan of
27:50
the ike series yeah yeah and now you you gave me this cool Rattler one to look at
27:56
which uh it's from the very early days of PCGS
28:01
and listening to John Albanese as I did in an interview we conducted a a couple
28:08
weeks ago he said that they were grading scared in the beginning and they weren't giving the ultra high grades out you
28:14
think that this coin is yeah 37 is undergraded where would you put this coin
28:20
you know how this coin is a 68 plus and it might be a 69 but I like it in that old Rattler holder um it's just uh I
28:28
guess history as far as PCGS is concerned and I know I had some of my
28:33
early raw hikes that I sent off to get graded and I sent some 72s off uh 72 S's
28:39
and they all came back 66 and I remember looking at them and going what is wrong
28:45
with these coins these coins look perfect to me but they graded them 66. and in today's market a 66 is worth 10
28:51
bucks I mean it's worth what a raw hike is worth and then you get a coin like this and it's a 67. clearly it was a
28:58
better coin and clearly undergraded by today's standards and I mean I think they could have graded this coin 68 back
29:05
then as well and I mean I love the coin I love the the history of the coin and the history of the the Rattler holder so
29:12
it's hard to find the the nice Ike's and Rattler Alders at this point one because
29:17
people didn't send them off and two they were very very tough on the gray trade so people cracked them out over the
29:22
years and and had them re-grade it but yeah this one's spectacular I mean I think it's basically the quality of the
29:28
coin you just put up that's in a 69 holder so right so the this this would definitely be a cherry pick if you found
29:35
this at a dealer's table and they did it's a keeper let's put it to you that way yeah no doubt
29:44
for class for a minute and go back to some uh really neat Ultra high-end clad
29:49
ice so you gave me this coin that I think maybe
29:55
10 years ago would have been like the Holy Grail of the series and this is a
30:01
coin that's been graded 67 plus this was essentially like the New
30:07
Frontier for the uh clad series you didn't see any 67 pluses
30:14
yeah no question about it I mean a 67 back when I originally put my set together was a very difficult coin
30:21
particularly the the 77pd 78 PD in fact I believe there was
30:26
only one 78d in 67 for the longest time and I think there were three or four or
30:32
77s and then I know there was a bag that or not a bag several bags I believe that
30:37
were grated probably 10 years ago and they made a lot of 67s out of those bags
30:43
but the quality was good yeah and the uh the price is plummeted because people
30:48
that were paying big bucks for a 67 didn't like the quality of what PC put in uh seven holders at that point so the
30:55
prices were uh depressed quite a bit and this particular coin it's phenomenal I mean you and I have talked about it
31:02
several times and you know you look at it and you go why isn't that coin in ms-68 well it could be I mean PCGS is
31:10
not great at a clad Ike ms-68 although I've seen a couple that I thought might have been 68s including uh one of the
31:17
first ones that was ever graded 67 plus it was a 76d type 2 and the The
31:24
Collector submitted the queen through me at the Baltimore show gosh probably 15 years ago and I told him I said this
31:29
coin has a good shot at 68 but they graded at 67 plus and to my knowledge
31:34
The Collector hasn't sent it back in for regrade but that might be along with this coin the first 68 in the series as
31:41
far as clouds go I mean this coin's dynamite I mean it has great color on it not really evident through the the
31:47
pictures there but it has kind of a a blue greenish color to it the strike is phenomenal the Luster's phenomenal and
31:54
there's really no bag marks at all on the coin so if it was a silver coin and it was a 72s it probably would be a 68
32:02
but I mean if they made this a 68 no telling what kind of number it would bring in an auction
32:07
that might be a 50 000 coin if it was to grade 68. you know the color s and kind
32:13
of reminds me of the uh really cool 74 P that you that you sold at uh Troy
32:19
Weaver that had that just almost like it looked like it was lacquered
32:26
yep that's a really good word for it I remember that 74p that was one of the nicest coins that I had in my set for
32:32
what the grade was and when I sold that to Troy it was a 66 and that was right as they started grading plus coins and I
32:40
told Troy I said that coin is going to Plus for sure and sure enough three or four years later it's in a 67 holder at
32:46
that point it was the only early pment that graded 67 and I agreed 100 with the
32:52
grade of that coin I mean it was it was a phenomenal coin given what goes on with that particular date uh the strike
32:58
issues and uh the really the bag Mark issues is the biggest issue on a 74p so I I know as a dealer it's hard to kind
33:06
of get emotional about some of these coins when they upgrade but uh I know as a collector I was kind I felt kind of
33:12
burned when I sold my 66 toner 72d and It upgraded to seven
33:19
yeah I I remember that coin because I think I owned that coin at some point I don't know if I I sold it to you or not
33:25
or sold it to somebody else and you bought it from somebody but uh that was a pretty coin and I mean quite clearly
33:31
there's some uh grade inflation going on in this series as there is in every other series but one thing you told me
33:37
years ago that uh that still resonates with me and I still tell people all the time the best coins are the best coins
33:43
no matter what they grade them and they're always going to come to the top uh cream always Rises to the top and
33:49
whatever the grading scale is the best coins are the best coins so and I think
33:54
in this series it's especially true because uh high and Ike dollar collectors are very picky and I remember
34:01
when the Sonoran Monsoon collection was put together by uh Joe Shirley I mean some of the Hyundai guys were like not
34:08
not really thrilled with some of the coins in his set and his set was competing for the top of the uh registry
34:16
and they did yeah there's no question yeah and there's the and that's exactly right because people do look at the
34:22
quality of the coin and and as you point out the people that that buy these a lot
34:27
of people make coins so they're looking at a lot of raw coins they're looking at a lot of coins before they put them in
34:33
their own set and they want quality pieces and that's why QA and and Cat
34:39
coins bring premiums um and you know coins that are of that type quality are always going to bring
34:45
premiums in the marketplace and if you have a collector that was just buying plastic and they didn't really care
34:50
about the quality the prices will be reflective of that and you see that time and time again particularly with this
34:56
series there's no question about it so so the last one here that we have is a
35:02
76 D type one so this would have been a 1975 mint Set coin
35:09
and uh the thing about the bicentennial coins is the reverse does not hide any
35:15
imperfection yup no question and uh that's part of
35:21
the problem with the front of Ike's as well I mean obviously the reverse on the normal non-bicentennial is uh has a
35:27
little more detail on it and it does hide a lot more marks but as you point out this is an open coin on both the
35:33
obverse and the reverse and any mark on the coin really no matter where it is you're going to see it right away and
35:39
that makes it very difficult to grade some of these and it also makes the eye appeal a little bit more difficult to
35:45
find nice ones you know when you're finding some of these with reading marks right in the middle of the moon or middle of the Bell or the middle of
35:52
Ike's forehead which they stick out like a sore thumb and you see it very quickly in this particular coin it was a nice
35:59
strike I mean if you look at the uh the the the strike on it both the obverse and the reverse are solid the luster is
36:06
really nice which is normally not an issue on the 76 bicentennials they typically come with pretty good luster
36:12
but the bag marks are the issue and you can find these coins if you were to cut one out of a mint set probably with
36:19
grade 62 or 63 on average at best good luck finding a really high-end One In A
36:24
Min set nowadays and I mean I've stopped looking through mint sets I mean I buy mint sets all the time and I really
36:30
don't even look for them anymore because they've been looked through a million times and the chances of finding a really high one are are just not worth
36:37
the time at this point so and then again to reiterate when we were talking
36:43
we're talking the demons come nicer than the payments and it seems like the 76p
36:49
type one was just about the karate site dollar they ever made
36:55
yeah it's definitely a tough coin and you can find them with nice luster but you go pull out a 75 Mint set I mean
37:01
they just have all kinds of marks all over the coins I don't know what the mint did maybe they they made them in
37:07
Philadelphia and put them on a truck and and took them on a dirt road to Denver and packaged them I don't know but uh
37:13
they're they're definitely rough coins yeah you can find them nicely struck but uh to find the combination that you want
37:19
in a high grade is very very difficult on that coin and I remember my Set coin
37:24
I remember finding that coin that was one of the the coins that I found raw and it's a spectacular coin it's
37:29
probably in a 66 plus holder at this point in time I haven't really looked at the coin facts but if I did I'm sure I
37:35
would recognize the coin right away and I'm certain that coin's in a six plus ORD by far the nicest one I've ever seen
37:41
but I mean that's one and probably 10 000 coins that you would find that nice or even even more so so the the spreads
37:49
of the amount of money that you're going to pay for an ice set if it's a if it's a
37:55
raw set versus a graded set is it's a pretty big gap
38:00
going from uh uh sort of a gem 65 set to a 66 or 67
38:06
set and it's an even bigger Gap if you go from like maybe a top five top ten
38:12
set on the PCGS registry to a number one set and and I remember when I sold you
38:18
my set James I think I was ranked number eight or ten and and that was like a
38:23
five figure set and the difference between my set and like Troy Weaver said which was number
38:28
one at the time was about a Lamborghini yeah
38:34
yeah it's like some good tips for collectors uh when they're buying these coins at
38:41
auction in high grades like what what should they look for for a high-end coin in a high grade because they're not all
38:48
high-end when they're graded you know 6 or 67. yeah correct I mean I I think the bottom
38:54
line any collector has to be more knowledgeable about the series that they're collecting than anybody else and
39:00
the key to that is look at a lot of coins and look at a lot of coins and the grade that you want to collect and then
39:07
when you see the nice ones you'll know right away you know I've seen 1067s in
39:13
this 67's nicer than all 10 of those that's the one you want to buy and it's
39:18
back to the same grading standards you know look for the things that make the grade the strike the luster the overall
39:26
eye appeal of the coin does it have any neat toning that impacts the eye appeal positively I mean just because the
39:32
Queen's tone doesn't mean it's worth more I mean a lot of dealers and a lot of the collectors think I have a tone coin it's automatically worth more the
39:39
reality is it has to be pretty toning that adds to the eye appeal that's going to bring the value and bring the grade
39:45
up and just be picky I mean that's the bottom line we talked about the 77ps that were out there the reason those
39:51
don't bring the money is the ike collector is a picky collector and for the coin that's there the coin that has
39:58
the quality you'll see the price go up and you'll see that in auctions you'll see some spirited bidding I mean I tried
40:04
to buy some 74 D's and 67 plus out of great collections gosh probably or
40:09
excuse me there were 74 P's in 67 plus and uh or no no excuse me there were 67s
40:15
I'm sorry I've got the grade right here but uh they were they were went for crazy money I mean almost twenty
40:22
thousand dollars and they had two of them that went in back to back weeks and
40:27
both of them brought almost twenty thousand dollars and I just passed I mean I said at that kind of number you
40:33
know that's a lot of money to put in a night and to your point if you want a top tier set it's probably going to cost
40:40
you 150 to 200 000 to put an Ike set together believe it or not I mean that's
40:46
a crazy number and you compare that to Ike's that would be sold from the telemarketers I mean you you can
40:52
probably buy an Ike set from a teller marketer for 250 300 a complete uh set
40:58
you know and it's a huge huge difference in price but the quality obviously is different as well and and you're not
41:04
going to be able to put 10 top end Ike sets together overnight I mean it it's a set that'll take you five to ten years
41:11
to put together if you want the top quality set even a top five quality set probably take you close to 10 years to
41:17
find the coins and also just to reiterate I mean a dealer like James I
41:23
mean I'm not necessarily speaking for you you say yourself but once you've seen enough of the high-end
41:29
coins like you know what's in the best sets uh you've placed coins in the best sets when somebody approaches you with a
41:36
coin that is sort of like run-of-the-mill you're going to think about
41:42
you know what kind of capital do I want to put in that coin especially if it's like a four or five ten thousand dollar coin do I have a buyer for that coin how
41:49
long is it going to sit around it's going to be tough to sell but when you get a coin in that same grade that you
41:55
know is better than what's in those collections that's better than what you've seen I don't
42:00
think that you're going to be reluctant at all about putting a strong offer together to buy that coin because you
42:06
know that coin is either going to sell itself or you're going to keep it yeah that's exactly right and and you
42:12
know the the coins when you see enough of them that where you have to step out and and pay the money and uh I mean
42:18
that's always true I mean the nicest coins I pay the most money for across any series and they're always the first
42:24
coins that sell so quality is is the key I mean I think that's true with with every budget that you're out there by
42:30
the best quality within your budget you know if it's uh a 300 set of hikes then
42:36
you know buy the best quality you can and you can probably still cherry pick some of that you go into the Morgan
42:41
series good luck trying to cherry pick a 67 81s from a dealer everybody knows how
42:46
to grade those but they don't necessarily know how to grade the Ikes and I think there's still a lot of uh fertile ground out there for people that
42:53
that want to spend 10 or 15 dollars on a coin and have the possibility of finding a coin that could be worth a thousand
42:59
dollars is a lot of dealers don't care about Ike's and they don't care about the quality of them they're definitely more and more to do now because they see
43:06
the prices they bring but you can definitely uh through through some careful collecting put a really nice set
43:12
together no doubt absolutely
43:21
so share them with the uh with the viewers and get your kind of take on how unusual these things are
43:28
so the first one here is missing about 20 percent of its planchet
43:35
and you see you see that yeah so yeah that's an interesting coin because
43:40
I bought that coin uh actually at the a Show the recent a a show and I had never
43:46
seen one like that and to find large coins with big errors on them is very
43:52
very difficult particularly when you're looking at medset or mint State coins we'll talk about proofs in a few minutes
43:57
which are a little bit different but uh I just thought this was the coolest coin I had no idea what it's worth the dealer
44:04
said he wanted X price for it and I said you know what it sounds like a fair deal to me I've never seen one like it I'll
44:10
take it because I'm going to put it in my collection but it's just neat I mean it's uh it weighs a little less than a
44:15
normal light because it's it's clearly not the entire uh strip but uh there's
44:21
some serious issues with how this coin was made and it's just it's kind of a
44:26
one of a kind and that's why I like the the big Ike errors they're almost one of a kind and this is that's why I bought
44:32
this particular coin I mean you certainly can find off centers and clips and things like that those are not necessarily one of a kind but this is
44:39
certainly a unique type error as far as Ike is concerned and uh it's just really
44:44
a cool coin there's no doubt so yeah so this is 3s
44:50
proof and this one this one's just incredible well I think I'm seeing double Charles
44:58
can you put that in Focus oh there you go it is doubled so no that's a cool coin I've actually owned this coin for
45:04
quite some time and uh you know the the proof hikes errors particular
45:09
particularly these big Ike errors I mean it's pretty clear that somebody made those in the mint and somehow got those
45:15
out of the mint I mean because this coin wouldn't fit in a a brown box hike I mean it's just it's not perfectly round
45:23
so there's a lot of these on the marketplace and the proof side that have surfaced over the last three four five
45:29
years and I think you're starting to see the value of some of these come down a little bit as the supply goes up that's
45:35
not to take away from the coolness of the coin because it it's a wicked cool error when I put this in my case
45:40
everybody wants to see it and they're like wow how did that happen you know and and like I said it's somebody
45:46
playing games at the uh the mint and there's quite a few proof coins from the
45:51
early 70s and across all the denominations that have some really wild errors to them and and there's no way
45:57
that those would have normally trickled out like the mint State errors like the one you just showed that was clearly a
46:04
process error and it just went into a bag of ices and some lucky collector I'm sure found that in a bag yikes at one
46:10
point in time but but these were clearly made by somebody and and smuggled out of the mint somehow and and uh they've been
46:17
graded by PCGS so so you mean you mean a 70s Washington quarter struck on a
46:23
barber quarter planchet that's not uh that doesn't happen by accident probably wasn't sitting in the bin I
46:30
don't think the barber quarter itself so yeah another very popular uh error is
46:36
the transitional errors the off metal errors yep and and that the market for those
46:43
has always been strong yeah no question I mean they made there's three of them that exist so
46:49
there's a 74 D on a silver plane actually there's there's four 74 D on a
46:54
silver planchet um that's the most populous one there's maybe 25 30 of those known I've probably bought and
46:59
sold 10 of them over the years uh followed that by the 77d there's about 10 to 15 of those known I think I've
47:05
only handled two or three of those uh the rarest is the 76d to my knowledge
47:11
there's only two of those and I recently sold one of those I don't want to disclose what I sold it for but uh quite
47:16
a bit of money I mean that that's a pretty rare coin and what basically happened is you had silver blank
47:22
planchets at the San Francisco mint uh that were rejects for the proof coins or
47:28
the mint State coins that they had and what they were doing they would also take the clad coins that they produced
47:34
that year where they had bad planches and they would put those in barrels and send those to the Denver minute and some
47:41
of the silver planchets found their way into those barrels and so the folks at the Denver men and didn't go through
47:47
them to weigh them or look at them and the the few silver planchets that were
47:52
in those barrels inadvertently were run through the uh the mint in Denver and that's how you got those uh particular
47:58
coins but they're all rare um none of them are super high grade they're all pretty baggy because they were all
48:04
dumped in bags to my knowledge all of those were found in bags um so they have the same qualities that
48:10
you have for the clad Ikes that we talked about earlier it'd be impossible I think to find one of those in 67 or
48:16
better I think the finest known of those are 64s in fact the 76d that I had was a
48:21
64 and I think a 74 D recently sold in 64 as well and then you also have the 73
48:28
s that's on clad there's two or three of those known I had one of those that I
48:33
bought in an au condition and I've seen one that a collector had I believe sold at auction a few years ago that was in a
48:40
67th grade but that was a silver coin and that was found in a blue pack Ike so it's easy to see why you you can find
48:46
those in much much higher grade than the demon off Metals but those are really neat errors as well and highly
48:53
collectible for sure yeah to your knowledge there hasn't been any 70 Ernie Smith clad blue pack Ike's or any
49:00
77d Silver Cloud X uh there are there is a 77d Silver Cloud
49:07
that that's for sure so uh yeah there's about 10 or 15 of those done so
49:14
well James thank you for sharing these cool coins with us you know you've made a business selling eight dollars another
49:20
U.S type coins and some really cool stuff you've sold over the years you've sold some pretty rare gold too
49:27
um but uh but yeah it's always fun to play with these Bitcoins yeah no I love it I I appreciate the
49:34
opportunity to talk about about Ike so it was the first coin I ever bought from the mint when I was 12 years old 1974
49:40
thought I was going to get rich off of it because the 73 Silvers went through the roof and I told my dad I said let's
49:45
spend 10 bucks and go buy one of these 74s I'll take it for my birthday and uh the coins still worth 10 bucks today so
49:52
it's it hasn't gone up in value and of course the 73 uh Silvers went way up and they've come back down as well and those
49:59
are maybe 20 coins but I I love this series it's a fascinating series it's a great series for young collectors that
50:06
are on a budget but it's also a series that uh a very sophisticated collector can spend a lot of money on and and go
50:12
after a top end set so uh it's fun for everybody all right well you have a great rest of
50:18
the week James I look forward to seeing you at the next show and uh probably fun I'm gonna guess I'm sure it'll be so I'll see you next
50:24
year thanks Charles I appreciate the time have a good one you too bye-bye