Up next in 10
Tube drivers are walking out over an ongoing dispute over a four day working week.
Transport for London is offering staff on the underground a four day week – but the RMT union has rejected it.
City AM's Alys Denby explains why this strike isn't about working conditions, but and internecine battle between the RMT and ASLEF unions.
Get more of City AM 👇
🌐 http://www.cityam.com
X(formerly Twitter): http://twitter.com/CityAM
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/cityam
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/city_am
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/company/cityam
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Last week, London has sweltered on the
0:01
underground, but for most of this week,
0:03
they won't be on it at all. And that is
0:05
because there are another round of tube
0:08
strikes coming up.
0:09
>> It was my pet subject last last one, and
0:11
now this one's yours.
0:12
>> I was about to say, [laughter] this is
0:12
my this is now mine.
0:14
>> It's your turn.
0:14
>> My my 4 minutes rage. It's the latest
0:17
round of walkouts over an ongoing
0:19
dispute about the 4-day week. And no,
0:21
it's not a campaign for the 4-day week,
0:24
it's in rejection [laughter]
0:25
to an offer for the 4-day week, uh which
0:27
I would personally snap up if offered.
0:30
But the RMT union, which represents
0:32
roughly half of tube workers, has
0:35
rejected it. Uh I think there's some
0:37
equally strong opinions on this. Uh
0:39
Alice Denby, our opinion editor, joins
0:41
us. Alice, what what do you make of
0:43
this? Cuz this has been happening a lot
0:45
now.
0:45
>> Look, I think if you're listening to
0:47
this while struggling with a commute or
0:49
having had to cut your evening short
0:50
because you know uh you can't get the
0:52
tube home, you should be frankly
0:54
incredibly insulted that this is all
0:57
happening because they because these RMT
1:00
union train drivers are rejecting an
1:03
offer for 4-day week. You probably work
1:04
many many longer hours than that, and as
1:06
you said, would would leap at the chance
1:08
of having it. And let's be clear, this
1:10
is a voluntary contract. Nobody is being
1:12
forced to take on this contract. Now,
1:14
there claims that um that somehow
1:16
working a slightly longer shift but over
1:19
overall fewer hours is
1:20
>> It's it's I think it would be a
1:21
compression of a 36-hour week into four
1:24
shifts, which would be 9-hour days.
1:26
>> Right. And so, they're saying
1:28
>> standard. Most people do.
1:30
>> They're saying that that that this is a
1:31
danger of fatigue. I'm sorry, if you're
1:32
a city worker who possibly works 18-hour
1:34
days, again, this is a massive slap in
1:36
the face. And what's really going on
1:38
here? This isn't actually about working
1:40
conditions. This is about an internecine
1:42
struggle between two different trade
1:43
unions. Now, forgive me, this is quite
1:45
>> Let's do this.
1:46
>> Um let's get
1:47
>> Let's not Let's not shy away from this
1:49
politics.
1:50
>> Um but if you're a train driver, a tube
1:52
driver, you have a choice of union,
1:54
right? You can join ASLEF, which is only
1:55
for tube drivers, or you can just join
1:57
RMT, which is many other kinds of
1:59
transport workers. So, these two unions
2:01
are competing for your membership if
2:02
you're a tube driver, and that is why
2:05
they are behaving in in kind of
2:07
different ways during this dispute.
2:09
Aslef says, "We'd be insane to reject
2:11
this. We get
2:12
>> great deal.
2:13
>> It's a great deal. We get 35 extra days
2:15
off a year. This is the kind of deal
2:16
that every single trade union should be
2:18
fighting for." RMT, however, want to
2:21
be They want to control the negotiations
2:25
with TfL, and that's why they're being
2:26
so aggressive in this way, and holding
2:29
passengers to ransom.
2:31
>> Now, I know people will say, "But
2:32
Business As Usual only comes out 4 days
2:34
a week." But rest assured, we do go to
2:37
work 5 days a week. Sometimes some
2:39
people do more. But like, is this not a
2:42
kind of mute debate? Like, are we not
2:44
just going to introduce AI to the tube
2:46
fairly soon and replace all the time
2:48
>> anyway.
2:49
>> Well, look, I think that the more
2:51
This is why strikes are so
2:52
self-defeating, right? Because every
2:54
single day of disrupted travel makes
2:56
every single passenger think, "Just
2:58
bring on driverless trains. Why do we
2:59
need them?" And especially, why do we
3:01
need this kind of closed shop, where
3:03
frankly you tube drive jobs are not
3:05
advertised externally. You can only
3:06
recruit with already existing
3:09
staff. It's ridiculous. Um
3:11
>> It's like working in the civil service.
3:13
>> [laughter]
3:13
>> I was going to say the mafia, but yeah.
3:15
>> Well, it's like a total sort of '70s
3:16
hangover. Um and and that's the sort of
3:19
politics that we're going back to with
3:20
this new
3:21
you know, with the Labour government
3:23
clearly pitching to the left. And then
3:25
one of the things that also frustrates
3:26
me is that you know, people often have a
3:28
go at conservative donors, for example,
3:30
being like, "Who are your paymasters?"
3:32
But these these very uh militant trade
3:36
unions are the Labour Party's
3:37
paymasters.
3:38
>> Union barons?
3:39
>> Union barons, indeed. Um
3:41
>> Well, and especially with the Labour
3:43
Party now struggling for membership.
3:45
There's about not how much it's the
3:46
Greens. Actually, they fundraising is
3:47
getting harder. I suppose one thing is
3:50
that when the last round of muted
3:52
strikes came up, it did get called off
3:54
at the last minute. So, I suppose there
3:55
is chance that there's a chance there is
3:57
a deal struck. Do you think that's
3:59
likely?
4:01
>> I don't know.
4:01
>> I suppose I suppose we're not in the
4:02
room.
4:03
>> No, we're not in the I mean it feels
4:04
exactly it's totally closed shop and it
4:06
feels like these battle lines as I say
4:07
which aren't really anything to do with
4:08
the working conditions. This is more to
4:10
do with who gets to control negotiations
4:12
with TFL. I don't see why it would be in
4:14
the RMT's interest to back down. Um but
4:17
let's also just spare a thought for the
4:19
uh the sort of ripple effects from these
4:21
strikes.
4:22
>> about to say Boston Consulting Group
4:24
have postponed their summer drinks to
4:26
September, I found out on Monday. Well,
4:28
you you laughed
4:29
>> Bad news for the city.
4:30
>> You laughed at looking for free drinks
4:31
for me, but but also
4:33
>> And and all the pubs around here
4:35
>> Yes, but also there are hundreds of
4:36
people who go to those drinks and it's
4:37
normally it's a very expensive bar who'd
4:39
be paying a lot of VAT.
4:40
>> Yeah.
4:41
>> But but there is a serious point there
4:42
about about the service sector like the
4:43
restaurants, the pubs. Like this this is
4:45
happening now multiple weeks a year.
4:47
It's like the third time in the last
4:49
three months this has happened. This
4:50
could just keep happening throughout the
4:51
year. That is a huge proportion of a
4:54
year's trade in pubs which are already
4:55
closed like multiple a day closing down.
4:57
>> Yeah, exactly. The last round of strikes
4:59
I think saw saw footfall in central
5:00
London fall by 16%. So, I mean this is
5:03
terrible for a sector let's forget that
5:05
let's not forget that's already really
5:06
struggling uh with the uh cost of
5:09
minimum wage, with business rates, um
5:12
and with workers' rights and all those
5:13
things that are really hammering this
5:14
sector and and you know people out there
5:16
who want to drink. Um but
5:18
>> [laughter]
5:21
>> Um producer Joe is telling us to wrap
5:23
up, but on the topic of RMT you've just
5:25
reminded me, so I'm going to put you on
5:26
the spot. Mick Lynch said over the
5:27
weekend um
5:29
that being working class means having to
5:31
work to pay your bills and you have to
5:34
live off your salary rather than live
5:36
off your assets. Do you agree?
5:38
>> Yeah, I can't believe I'm saying this,
5:39
but I agree with Mick Lynch. I I
5:40
don't I I don't think that being a
5:42
working person or whatever means you
5:44
have to have a particular kind of job. I
5:45
think it means be.
5:46
>> nor is it like wearing an accent.
5:48
>> Yeah.
5:48
>> so but I suppose that is a change that
5:50
it did used to be more of a cultural
5:51
identity and now actually if if everyone
5:53
if everyone's leveled down
5:56
>> [laughter]
5:57
>> we're all salary men now.
5:59
>> Labor won in the end.
6:00
>> All right. Thank you very much Alice.
6:03
Thanks so much for coming in.
6:04
>> Pleasure as always.
News