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Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Mads Kempel Sørensen for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on August 27, at 01:05 PM (EST).
The show explores cloud leadership and addresses the key questions surrounding cloud projects. Indeed, many aspects of a company's success in the cloud are related to technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are crucial for maintaining a healthy cloud and for implementing a swift and accurate cloud approach.
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0:00
Hello everyone. Welcome to yet another
0:01
Hello everyone. Welcome to yet another
0:02
Hello everyone. Welcome to yet another episode of the cloud show. Tonight or
0:05
episode of the cloud show. Tonight or
0:05
episode of the cloud show. Tonight or this time we are going to talk to an
0:07
this time we are going to talk to an
0:07
this time we are going to talk to an expert in managing projects and managing
0:10
expert in managing projects and managing
0:10
expert in managing projects and managing how to get real cloud transformation
0:13
how to get real cloud transformation
0:13
how to get real cloud transformation value out of the project that you're
0:15
value out of the project that you're
0:15
value out of the project that you're running. He's been doing this for many
0:17
running. He's been doing this for many
0:17
running. He's been doing this for many years in many contexts. And uh we're
0:19
years in many contexts. And uh we're
0:19
years in many contexts. And uh we're going to talk about how how this really
0:22
going to talk about how how this really
0:22
going to talk about how how this really is a people game. how you really have to
0:25
is a people game. how you really have to
0:25
is a people game. how you really have to be able to adopt properly from the core
0:28
be able to adopt properly from the core
0:28
be able to adopt properly from the core business value and change and transform
0:31
business value and change and transform
0:31
business value and change and transform uh into a a cloud company. This is an
0:34
uh into a a cloud company. This is an
0:34
uh into a a cloud company. This is an interesting topic and the expert the
0:36
interesting topic and the expert the
0:36
interesting topic and the expert the star of the show tonight is Mads Kemple
0:38
star of the show tonight is Mads Kemple
0:38
star of the show tonight is Mads Kemple Solison.
0:40
Solison.
0:40
Solison. [Music]
0:50
>> Hello Ms. Hello Ms.
0:53
>> Hello Ms. Hello Ms.
0:53
>> Hello Ms. Hello Ms. Welcome to the show.
0:54
Welcome to the show.
0:54
Welcome to the show. >> Thank you very much. Good.
0:56
>> Thank you very much. Good.
0:56
>> Thank you very much. Good. >> It's a pleasure to have you. And for
0:58
>> It's a pleasure to have you. And for
0:58
>> It's a pleasure to have you. And for context, we used to be colleagues. We
0:59
context, we used to be colleagues. We
0:59
context, we used to be colleagues. We used to work at the same place.
1:01
used to work at the same place.
1:01
used to work at the same place. >> Exactly. Exactly.
1:03
>> Exactly. Exactly.
1:03
>> Exactly. Exactly. >> That's how we know each other.
1:04
>> That's how we know each other.
1:04
>> That's how we know each other. >> Yeah.
1:05
>> Yeah.
1:05
>> Yeah. >> Exactly.
1:05
>> Exactly.
1:05
>> Exactly. >> Yep. And and you you work in a in a lot
1:08
>> Yep. And and you you work in a in a lot
1:08
>> Yep. And and you you work in a in a lot of project uh running managerial
1:12
of project uh running managerial
1:12
of project uh running managerial positions in cloud contexts. Really?
1:15
positions in cloud contexts. Really?
1:15
positions in cloud contexts. Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. I've been uh I've been
1:16
>> Yeah. Yeah. I've been uh I've been
1:16
>> Yeah. Yeah. I've been uh I've been working uh uh a lot with cloud projects
1:19
working uh uh a lot with cloud projects
1:19
working uh uh a lot with cloud projects over the last almost 15 20 years now.
1:23
over the last almost 15 20 years now.
1:23
over the last almost 15 20 years now. So you can say that both you are the
1:25
So you can say that both you are the
1:25
So you can say that both you are the exact audience that I hope to attract
1:28
exact audience that I hope to attract
1:28
exact audience that I hope to attract with this show that that wants to maybe
1:31
with this show that that wants to maybe
1:31
with this show that that wants to maybe eventually listen to to one of the
1:33
eventually listen to to one of the
1:33
eventually listen to to one of the episodes and uh plus you have the exact
1:36
episodes and uh plus you have the exact
1:36
episodes and uh plus you have the exact experience that these people are are
1:38
experience that these people are are
1:38
experience that these people are are interested in hearing about.
1:39
interested in hearing about.
1:40
interested in hearing about. >> Um and you and I talked about like what
1:42
>> Um and you and I talked about like what
1:42
>> Um and you and I talked about like what should we talk about on the show and I
1:44
should we talk about on the show and I
1:44
should we talk about on the show and I was like okay well you suggest
1:46
was like okay well you suggest
1:46
was like okay well you suggest something. You you mentioned cloud
1:48
something. You you mentioned cloud
1:48
something. You you mentioned cloud transformation projects.
1:50
transformation projects.
1:50
transformation projects. >> I love that topic. It's It's one of my
1:52
>> I love that topic. It's It's one of my
1:52
>> I love that topic. It's It's one of my favorite topics.
1:53
favorite topics.
1:53
favorite topics. >> Yeah.
1:54
>> Yeah.
1:54
>> Yeah. >> Right. But tell us first a little bit
1:56
>> Right. But tell us first a little bit
1:56
>> Right. But tell us first a little bit about yourself. You're in Denmark.
1:59
about yourself. You're in Denmark.
1:59
about yourself. You're in Denmark. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm uh I'm from Denmark. I'm
2:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm uh I'm from Denmark. I'm
2:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm uh I'm from Denmark. I'm 43 years of age. Uh and uh I've been
2:06
43 years of age. Uh and uh I've been
2:06
43 years of age. Uh and uh I've been working in the digital and technology
2:08
working in the digital and technology
2:08
working in the digital and technology transformation area for the last uh
2:11
transformation area for the last uh
2:11
transformation area for the last uh almost 20 years now. Uh I have a a
2:14
almost 20 years now. Uh I have a a
2:14
almost 20 years now. Uh I have a a background from hands-on IT expertise
2:17
background from hands-on IT expertise
2:17
background from hands-on IT expertise and combining it with an executive MBA.
2:19
and combining it with an executive MBA.
2:19
and combining it with an executive MBA. have been working on developing and
2:22
have been working on developing and
2:22
have been working on developing and executing IT strategies.
2:23
executing IT strategies.
2:23
executing IT strategies. >> Mhm.
2:24
>> Mhm.
2:24
>> Mhm. >> And um yeah, I my my my passion or drive
2:28
>> And um yeah, I my my my passion or drive
2:28
>> And um yeah, I my my my passion or drive for leadership and people uh and
2:30
for leadership and people uh and
2:30
for leadership and people uh and especially on how to
2:33
especially on how to
2:34
especially on how to empower this digital and cloud
2:35
empower this digital and cloud
2:35
empower this digital and cloud transformation to actually enable the
2:37
transformation to actually enable the
2:37
transformation to actually enable the business to growth, innovate and be more
2:41
business to growth, innovate and be more
2:41
business to growth, innovate and be more resilient.
2:41
resilient.
2:42
resilient. >> And that's exactly how I know you by the
2:43
>> And that's exactly how I know you by the
2:43
>> And that's exactly how I know you by the way because that's exactly the roles we
2:45
way because that's exactly the roles we
2:45
way because that's exactly the roles we had when we worked together. whether I
2:47
had when we worked together. whether I
2:47
had when we worked together. whether I was an engineer or an architect and you
2:49
was an engineer or an architect and you
2:49
was an engineer or an architect and you were one of the managers.
2:51
were one of the managers.
2:51
were one of the managers. >> Exactly. Exactly. And it's good seeing
2:53
>> Exactly. Exactly. And it's good seeing
2:54
>> Exactly. Exactly. And it's good seeing you again. Yeah,
2:55
you again. Yeah,
2:55
you again. Yeah, >> absolutely. To totally good to see you
2:56
>> absolutely. To totally good to see you
2:56
>> absolutely. To totally good to see you as well. So, so let's talk about this um
2:59
as well. So, so let's talk about this um
2:59
as well. So, so let's talk about this um a company that is going to the cloud or
3:02
a company that is going to the cloud or
3:02
a company that is going to the cloud or going to take a lot of maybe they have a
3:04
going to take a lot of maybe they have a
3:04
going to take a lot of maybe they have a little bit of cloud and then all of a
3:05
little bit of cloud and then all of a
3:05
little bit of cloud and then all of a sudden we have this project we're going
3:07
sudden we have this project we're going
3:07
sudden we have this project we're going to take a large chunk to the cloud or
3:09
to take a large chunk to the cloud or
3:09
to take a large chunk to the cloud or we're going to go to the cloud for the
3:10
we're going to go to the cloud for the
3:10
we're going to go to the cloud for the first time or whatever. Um this is a
3:14
first time or whatever. Um this is a
3:14
first time or whatever. Um this is a this is a challenging journey and a lot
3:16
this is a challenging journey and a lot
3:16
this is a challenging journey and a lot of the cloud strategies they fail to
3:18
of the cloud strategies they fail to
3:18
of the cloud strategies they fail to deliver value and and what is some of
3:21
deliver value and and what is some of
3:21
deliver value and and what is some of the core reasons why that can be?
3:24
the core reasons why that can be?
3:24
the core reasons why that can be? Yeah, I think uh one of the core reason
3:27
Yeah, I think uh one of the core reason
3:27
Yeah, I think uh one of the core reason is that normally you you take um a cloud
3:31
is that normally you you take um a cloud
3:31
is that normally you you take um a cloud transformation or cloud migration
3:33
transformation or cloud migration
3:33
transformation or cloud migration approach where you actually just migrate
3:36
approach where you actually just migrate
3:36
approach where you actually just migrate servers or workloads into the cloud
3:37
servers or workloads into the cloud
3:37
servers or workloads into the cloud because that's the easiest way to to
3:40
because that's the easiest way to to
3:40
because that's the easiest way to to start doing stuff and then they kind of
3:42
start doing stuff and then they kind of
3:42
start doing stuff and then they kind of stop there and don't do uh much more
3:44
stop there and don't do uh much more
3:44
stop there and don't do uh much more about it. And uh and that's that's
3:47
about it. And uh and that's that's
3:47
about it. And uh and that's that's something that normally fails because it
3:49
something that normally fails because it
3:49
something that normally fails because it kind of it's become too expensive and it
3:51
kind of it's become too expensive and it
3:52
kind of it's become too expensive and it doesn't make that much value for the
3:54
doesn't make that much value for the
3:54
doesn't make that much value for the business at all. Sometimes it will of
3:56
business at all. Sometimes it will of
3:56
business at all. Sometimes it will of course but but normally it's more about
3:59
course but but normally it's more about
3:59
course but but normally it's more about how do we actually transform it or you
4:01
how do we actually transform it or you
4:01
how do we actually transform it or you have these five Rs and all that stuff or
4:03
have these five Rs and all that stuff or
4:03
have these five Rs and all that stuff or you refactor rehost or re
4:05
you refactor rehost or re
4:05
you refactor rehost or re >> refactor rehost and there's lots of Rs
4:08
>> refactor rehost and there's lots of Rs
4:08
>> refactor rehost and there's lots of Rs >> lots of Rs but but you really need to
4:10
>> lots of Rs but but you really need to
4:10
>> lots of Rs but but you really need to focus on that and I think a lot of where
4:13
focus on that and I think a lot of where
4:13
focus on that and I think a lot of where where stuff fails is where you don't
4:16
where stuff fails is where you don't
4:16
where stuff fails is where you don't have the common language in how we
4:19
have the common language in how we
4:19
have the common language in how we actually are talking about what is the
4:22
actually are talking about what is the
4:22
actually are talking about what is the value from the business perspective and
4:24
value from the business perspective and
4:24
value from the business perspective and into the IT perspective and also when we
4:27
into the IT perspective and also when we
4:27
into the IT perspective and also when we talk into an IT department, we have also
4:32
talk into an IT department, we have also
4:32
talk into an IT department, we have also different languages. We need to talk and
4:34
different languages. We need to talk and
4:34
different languages. We need to talk and and have a common language in actually
4:36
and have a common language in actually
4:36
and have a common language in actually why are these cloud center of excellence
4:38
why are these cloud center of excellence
4:38
why are these cloud center of excellence or cloud people making value because we
4:41
or cloud people making value because we
4:41
or cloud people making value because we did it last year in on premise uh
4:44
did it last year in on premise uh
4:44
did it last year in on premise uh infrastructure etc. And they are they
4:47
infrastructure etc. And they are they
4:47
infrastructure etc. And they are they are a common language we need to we need
4:50
are a common language we need to we need
4:50
are a common language we need to we need to translate both internally in IT
4:52
to translate both internally in IT
4:52
to translate both internally in IT departments but especially out to what
4:55
departments but especially out to what
4:55
departments but especially out to what is actually driving value in the
4:57
is actually driving value in the
4:57
is actually driving value in the business.
4:59
business.
4:59
business. >> Yeah, I see what you mean. Uh for me
5:01
>> Yeah, I see what you mean. Uh for me
5:02
>> Yeah, I see what you mean. Uh for me it's it's common that um that there is
5:04
it's it's common that um that there is
5:04
it's it's common that um that there is there is no real
5:07
there is no real
5:07
there is no real understanding from the business and
5:10
understanding from the business and
5:10
understanding from the business and managerial side why it is different,
5:14
managerial side why it is different,
5:14
managerial side why it is different, right? Why is cloud on the ground or on
5:17
right? Why is cloud on the ground or on
5:17
right? Why is cloud on the ground or on premise or whatever cloud we had before
5:19
premise or whatever cloud we had before
5:19
premise or whatever cloud we had before maybe with a local hoster? Why is that
5:22
maybe with a local hoster? Why is that
5:22
maybe with a local hoster? Why is that different from running it in in that
5:24
different from running it in in that
5:24
different from running it in in that cloud thing? How common that is like
5:27
cloud thing? How common that is like
5:27
cloud thing? How common that is like there is no understanding about that
5:29
there is no understanding about that
5:29
there is no understanding about that transition that it it's a it's a major
5:31
transition that it it's a it's a major
5:31
transition that it it's a it's a major trans it's a very dangerous and major
5:33
trans it's a very dangerous and major
5:33
trans it's a very dangerous and major major transition for the engineering
5:35
major transition for the engineering
5:35
major transition for the engineering department.
5:36
department.
5:36
department. >> Yeah, definitely. uh and and I think
5:38
>> Yeah, definitely. uh and and I think
5:38
>> Yeah, definitely. uh and and I think today you can actually do a lot of
5:40
today you can actually do a lot of
5:40
today you can actually do a lot of onremise cloud native stuff you can
5:43
onremise cloud native stuff you can
5:43
onremise cloud native stuff you can almost say and it's really it's really
5:45
almost say and it's really it's really
5:45
almost say and it's really it's really good uh some of it but there are of
5:48
good uh some of it but there are of
5:48
good uh some of it but there are of course a really high uh speed and
5:51
course a really high uh speed and
5:51
course a really high uh speed and innovation in the at least the public
5:53
innovation in the at least the public
5:53
innovation in the at least the public cloud area and when we talk to
5:55
cloud area and when we talk to
5:55
cloud area and when we talk to developers product teams etc in the
5:58
developers product teams etc in the
5:58
developers product teams etc in the business what they are talking about is
6:01
business what they are talking about is
6:01
business what they are talking about is just simply a different language than
6:03
just simply a different language than
6:03
just simply a different language than what on premise or classic it is and
6:06
what on premise or classic it is and
6:06
what on premise or classic it is and there We need to be involved in
6:08
there We need to be involved in
6:08
there We need to be involved in translating and actually be really close
6:10
translating and actually be really close
6:10
translating and actually be really close to these product teams, these developer
6:14
to these product teams, these developer
6:14
to these product teams, these developer teams because what they are doing uh or
6:16
teams because what they are doing uh or
6:16
teams because what they are doing uh or at least should be doing is the real
6:19
at least should be doing is the real
6:19
at least should be doing is the real digital transformation and developing of
6:21
digital transformation and developing of
6:21
digital transformation and developing of products or integration or whatever they
6:23
products or integration or whatever they
6:23
products or integration or whatever they are doing in these areas and that's
6:26
are doing in these areas and that's
6:26
are doing in these areas and that's where you need to
6:28
where you need to
6:28
where you need to >> make sure that I I don't I actually
6:29
>> make sure that I I don't I actually
6:30
>> make sure that I I don't I actually think there are a lot of people
6:31
think there are a lot of people
6:31
think there are a lot of people understanding this but they need to be
6:32
understanding this but they need to be
6:32
understanding this but they need to be empowered and enabling to to be part of
6:35
empowered and enabling to to be part of
6:35
empowered and enabling to to be part of this and not just running uh the legacy
6:38
this and not just running uh the legacy
6:38
this and not just running uh the legacy infrastructure you can say
6:40
infrastructure you can say
6:40
infrastructure you can say >> right no no exactly and and and again I
6:44
>> right no no exactly and and and again I
6:44
>> right no no exactly and and and again I I do a lot of this uh myself so I feel
6:46
I do a lot of this uh myself so I feel
6:46
I do a lot of this uh myself so I feel like my questions are so leading but
6:48
like my questions are so leading but
6:48
like my questions are so leading but this is for the audience not not for me
6:51
this is for the audience not not for me
6:51
this is for the audience not not for me um
6:52
um
6:52
um the the skill set um I come back to that
6:55
the the skill set um I come back to that
6:55
the the skill set um I come back to that the skill set needed to be uh you know
6:58
the skill set needed to be uh you know
6:58
the skill set needed to be uh you know you can be a skilled engineer on the
7:00
you can be a skilled engineer on the
7:00
you can be a skilled engineer on the ground right you maybe have you know 20
7:02
ground right you maybe have you know 20
7:02
ground right you maybe have you know 20 30 years lots of experience you've been
7:04
30 years lots of experience you've been
7:04
30 years lots of experience you've been running IT systems and running
7:06
running IT systems and running
7:06
running IT systems and running applications and hosting applications on
7:09
applications and hosting applications on
7:09
applications and hosting applications on servers and racks and things that you
7:11
servers and racks and things that you
7:11
servers and racks and things that you can touch and feel uh for maybe decades,
7:14
can touch and feel uh for maybe decades,
7:14
can touch and feel uh for maybe decades, right?
7:15
right?
7:15
right? >> But now this is a new thing. Um there
7:18
>> But now this is a new thing. Um there
7:18
>> But now this is a new thing. Um there are so many differences. Uh what's
7:21
are so many differences. Uh what's
7:21
are so many differences. Uh what's what's sort of how do we approach this
7:23
what's sort of how do we approach this
7:23
what's sort of how do we approach this changing of the workforce?
7:27
changing of the workforce?
7:28
changing of the workforce? >> Yeah. And I think there's a lot of
7:29
>> Yeah. And I think there's a lot of
7:29
>> Yeah. And I think there's a lot of change management in this. uh and there
7:31
change management in this. uh and there
7:31
change management in this. uh and there are of course uh I think in the previous
7:34
are of course uh I think in the previous
7:34
are of course uh I think in the previous um let's say the last five years or so
7:37
um let's say the last five years or so
7:37
um let's say the last five years or so it has been really or 10 years maybe
7:39
it has been really or 10 years maybe
7:39
it has been really or 10 years maybe it's the cloud has developed a lot and
7:42
it's the cloud has developed a lot and
7:42
it's the cloud has developed a lot and and also a lot of the on-remise uh
7:44
and also a lot of the on-remise uh
7:44
and also a lot of the on-remise uh classic guy you can say they know a lot
7:46
classic guy you can say they know a lot
7:46
classic guy you can say they know a lot about the benefits nowadays but it is
7:49
about the benefits nowadays but it is
7:49
about the benefits nowadays but it is like uh changing the whole paradigm or
7:53
like uh changing the whole paradigm or
7:53
like uh changing the whole paradigm or mindset sometimes when you actually
7:55
mindset sometimes when you actually
7:55
mindset sometimes when you actually drive things into the cloud so you need
7:58
drive things into the cloud so you need
7:58
drive things into the cloud so you need to focus on the people and the change
7:59
to focus on the people and the change
7:59
to focus on the people and the change management part of this because it is a
8:01
management part of this because it is a
8:01
management part of this because it is a big change
8:02
big change
8:02
big change >> and it is a big change together with the
8:04
>> and it is a big change together with the
8:04
>> and it is a big change together with the business because when we really talk
8:05
business because when we really talk
8:05
business because when we really talk about digital transformation and AI
8:08
about digital transformation and AI
8:08
about digital transformation and AI enabling now nowadays and etc you need
8:11
enabling now nowadays and etc you need
8:11
enabling now nowadays and etc you need to have cloud and the platforms the
8:14
to have cloud and the platforms the
8:14
to have cloud and the platforms the governance all this all these
8:17
governance all this all these
8:17
governance all this all these >> beautiful things that has actually been
8:19
>> beautiful things that has actually been
8:19
>> beautiful things that has actually been been uh developed and and enabled and
8:21
been uh developed and and enabled and
8:21
been uh developed and and enabled and integrated into an cloud platform today
8:24
integrated into an cloud platform today
8:24
integrated into an cloud platform today you need to have that um to be to be
8:28
you need to have that um to be to be
8:28
you need to have that um to be to be able to drive the the exec execution of
8:30
able to drive the the exec execution of
8:30
able to drive the the exec execution of what they're doing in the business but
8:32
what they're doing in the business but
8:32
what they're doing in the business but also you need the the operator or the IT
8:35
also you need the the operator or the IT
8:35
also you need the the operator or the IT people to to manage it operate etc. So
8:39
people to to manage it operate etc. So
8:39
people to to manage it operate etc. So you have this um uh this new way of
8:42
you have this um uh this new way of
8:42
you have this um uh this new way of doing stuff but still with an old uh way
8:46
doing stuff but still with an old uh way
8:46
doing stuff but still with an old uh way of doing stuff you can almost say
8:47
of doing stuff you can almost say
8:47
of doing stuff you can almost say because processes etc that you just need
8:50
because processes etc that you just need
8:50
because processes etc that you just need to still be able to handle when you
8:52
to still be able to handle when you
8:52
to still be able to handle when you drive things into a cloud. So you need
8:55
drive things into a cloud. So you need
8:55
drive things into a cloud. So you need to change people, but you also need to
8:57
to change people, but you also need to
8:58
to change people, but you also need to >> to use what you're actually good at into
9:00
>> to use what you're actually good at into
9:00
>> to use what you're actually good at into the
9:02
the
9:02
the >> No. Yeah, I I see that. And and um of
9:06
>> No. Yeah, I I see that. And and um of
9:06
>> No. Yeah, I I see that. And and um of course it's it's always as always
9:07
course it's it's always as always
9:07
course it's it's always as always important to know why we're doing
9:09
important to know why we're doing
9:09
important to know why we're doing something, right? So I guess the the
9:12
something, right? So I guess the the
9:12
something, right? So I guess the the most obvious business benefit lowhanging
9:14
most obvious business benefit lowhanging
9:14
most obvious business benefit lowhanging fruit is that that this the cloud
9:16
fruit is that that this the cloud
9:16
fruit is that that this the cloud promise is to be much more um
9:19
promise is to be much more um
9:19
promise is to be much more um cost-effective. Um I think that's a
9:21
cost-effective. Um I think that's a
9:22
cost-effective. Um I think that's a common reason for moving to the cloud.
9:24
common reason for moving to the cloud.
9:24
common reason for moving to the cloud. But there are some other popular ones as
9:26
But there are some other popular ones as
9:26
But there are some other popular ones as well. Um which means that you have to be
9:30
well. Um which means that you have to be
9:30
well. Um which means that you have to be very clear
9:32
very clear
9:32
very clear business-wise. Why are you doing this?
9:34
business-wise. Why are you doing this?
9:34
business-wise. Why are you doing this? Right.
9:35
Right.
9:35
Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think yeah the cost
9:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think yeah the cost
9:38
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think yeah the cost efficiency of course cloud can be more
9:40
efficiency of course cloud can be more
9:40
efficiency of course cloud can be more cost efficient. Uh
9:41
cost efficient. Uh
9:42
cost efficient. Uh >> sure.
9:42
>> sure.
9:42
>> sure. >> But also it's it could al be more
9:45
>> But also it's it could al be more
9:45
>> But also it's it could al be more expensive. You also need to go in with a
9:47
expensive. You also need to go in with a
9:47
expensive. You also need to go in with a with an open eye on that. But but with
9:49
with an open eye on that. But but with
9:49
with an open eye on that. But but with with all nice but but then it might
9:51
with all nice but but then it might
9:51
with all nice but but then it might enable you to grow faster or innovate
9:54
enable you to grow faster or innovate
9:54
enable you to grow faster or innovate faster or
9:55
faster or
9:55
faster or >> right
9:56
>> right
9:56
>> right >> time to market you know uh the speed of
9:59
>> time to market you know uh the speed of
9:59
>> time to market you know uh the speed of uh the development because that is more
10:02
uh the development because that is more
10:02
uh the development because that is more >> uh doable in in cloud infrastructure to
10:04
>> uh doable in in cloud infrastructure to
10:04
>> uh doable in in cloud infrastructure to actually empower uh the business to to
10:07
actually empower uh the business to to
10:07
actually empower uh the business to to use uh the new AI tools etc. And that
10:11
use uh the new AI tools etc. And that
10:11
use uh the new AI tools etc. And that might cost you a bit more compared to a
10:14
might cost you a bit more compared to a
10:14
might cost you a bit more compared to a onremise uh infrastructure or outsourced
10:17
onremise uh infrastructure or outsourced
10:17
onremise uh infrastructure or outsourced infrastructure or something like that
10:19
infrastructure or something like that
10:19
infrastructure or something like that but it will gain you uh more uh revenue
10:23
but it will gain you uh more uh revenue
10:23
but it will gain you uh more uh revenue maybe or or growth uh in the area of
10:25
maybe or or growth uh in the area of
10:26
maybe or or growth uh in the area of what your strategy is actually saying
10:27
what your strategy is actually saying
10:27
what your strategy is actually saying right
10:28
right
10:28
right >> I I' I've seen I've seen some
10:30
>> I I' I've seen I've seen some
10:30
>> I I' I've seen I've seen some calculations on this showing quite
10:32
calculations on this showing quite
10:32
calculations on this showing quite clearly that it's common that the
10:35
clearly that it's common that the
10:35
clearly that it's common that the transformation process and the
10:36
transformation process and the
10:36
transformation process and the transformation work for a period of time
10:41
transformation work for a period of time
10:41
transformation work for a period of time makes the total IT cost higher. It goes
10:45
makes the total IT cost higher. It goes
10:45
makes the total IT cost higher. It goes up before it goes down.
10:47
up before it goes down.
10:47
up before it goes down. >> Have you seen this thing as well?
10:49
>> Have you seen this thing as well?
10:49
>> Have you seen this thing as well? >> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You have this um
10:51
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You have this um
10:51
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You have this um >> I think somebody calls it the whale
10:53
>> I think somebody calls it the whale
10:53
>> I think somebody calls it the whale curve because it's a big whale, right?
10:55
curve because it's a big whale, right?
10:55
curve because it's a big whale, right? Because you have
10:57
Because you have
10:57
Because you have >> Yeah.
10:57
>> Yeah.
10:57
>> Yeah. >> Yeah, that makes sense. at
10:59
>> Yeah, that makes sense. at
10:59
>> Yeah, that makes sense. at least because it's a if you have a big
11:01
least because it's a if you have a big
11:01
least because it's a if you have a big whale, you know, you have a you have a
11:03
whale, you know, you have a you have a
11:03
whale, you know, you have a you have a quite you could normally you have
11:06
quite you could normally you have
11:06
quite you could normally you have >> before you get the cost saving and of
11:08
>> before you get the cost saving and of
11:08
>> before you get the cost saving and of course you can't do a lot of costsaving
11:10
course you can't do a lot of costsaving
11:10
course you can't do a lot of costsaving because you you have all the tools in in
11:13
because you you have all the tools in in
11:13
because you you have all the tools in in cloud environments to do FinOps today uh
11:16
cloud environments to do FinOps today uh
11:16
cloud environments to do FinOps today uh financial operation right and you need
11:18
financial operation right and you need
11:18
financial operation right and you need to have to figure that out also on your
11:20
to have to figure that out also on your
11:20
to have to figure that out also on your on premise if you don't move everything
11:22
on premise if you don't move everything
11:22
on premise if you don't move everything into the cloud. So this hybrid setup
11:24
into the cloud. So this hybrid setup
11:24
into the cloud. So this hybrid setup between uh public private clouds etc.
11:27
between uh public private clouds etc.
11:27
between uh public private clouds etc. >> The phups part is really important uh to
11:31
>> The phups part is really important uh to
11:31
>> The phups part is really important uh to manage your cost doing this
11:33
manage your cost doing this
11:33
manage your cost doing this transformation uh and seeing why is this
11:36
transformation uh and seeing why is this
11:36
transformation uh and seeing why is this uh uh why these these services actually
11:39
uh uh why these these services actually
11:39
uh uh why these these services actually costing that much. That might be because
11:42
costing that much. That might be because
11:42
costing that much. That might be because uh some part in the in the business in
11:44
uh some part in the in the business in
11:44
uh some part in the in the business in the customer support is building
11:46
the customer support is building
11:46
the customer support is building something that that runs totally out of
11:48
something that that runs totally out of
11:48
something that that runs totally out of chaos or maybe it's really good because
11:50
chaos or maybe it's really good because
11:50
chaos or maybe it's really good because we didn't get a higher customer
11:52
we didn't get a higher customer
11:52
we didn't get a higher customer satisfaction or something then right is
11:54
satisfaction or something then right is
11:54
satisfaction or something then right is okay. Yeah.
11:55
okay. Yeah.
11:55
okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So, so we
11:57
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So, so we
11:57
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. So, so we need to focus on the strategy. We need
11:59
need to focus on the strategy. We need
11:59
need to focus on the strategy. We need to know why we're doing it. We need to
12:01
to know why we're doing it. We need to
12:01
to know why we're doing it. We need to accept that it's going to to to be an
12:03
accept that it's going to to to be an
12:03
accept that it's going to to to be an investment in the beginning
12:05
investment in the beginning
12:06
investment in the beginning >> but usually I mean especially if if you
12:08
>> but usually I mean especially if if you
12:08
>> but usually I mean especially if if you gain more revenue from doing this like
12:11
gain more revenue from doing this like
12:11
gain more revenue from doing this like you maybe gain you maybe open up new
12:13
you maybe gain you maybe open up new
12:13
you maybe gain you maybe open up new markets and things like that. I think
12:15
markets and things like that. I think
12:15
markets and things like that. I think that most business can be forgiven
12:18
that most business can be forgiven
12:18
that most business can be forgiven forgiving in in an increase of cost u
12:22
forgiving in in an increase of cost u
12:22
forgiving in in an increase of cost u temporarily or slowly but surely if
12:24
temporarily or slowly but surely if
12:24
temporarily or slowly but surely if there is an a corresponding increase in
12:26
there is an a corresponding increase in
12:26
there is an a corresponding increase in revenue.
12:27
revenue.
12:27
revenue. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Definitely. or or
12:29
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Definitely. or or
12:29
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Definitely. or or or a better even better corresponding
12:32
or a better even better corresponding
12:32
or a better even better corresponding revenue increase, right? That would be
12:34
revenue increase, right? That would be
12:34
revenue increase, right? That would be ideal
12:35
ideal
12:35
ideal >> and that should be the reason uh of
12:37
>> and that should be the reason uh of
12:37
>> and that should be the reason uh of course it should be a business approach
12:39
course it should be a business approach
12:39
course it should be a business approach to this because it needs to to drive
12:42
to this because it needs to to drive
12:42
to this because it needs to to drive your business growth. Uh that's the
12:44
your business growth. Uh that's the
12:44
your business growth. Uh that's the reason why you should do this or uh of
12:46
reason why you should do this or uh of
12:46
reason why you should do this or uh of course there could be cost reduction but
12:48
course there could be cost reduction but
12:48
course there could be cost reduction but I don't think that's uh that's good
12:50
I don't think that's uh that's good
12:50
I don't think that's uh that's good enough uh because you need to you you're
12:54
enough uh because you need to you you're
12:54
enough uh because you need to you you're doing a lot of change in your IT uh
12:57
doing a lot of change in your IT uh
12:57
doing a lot of change in your IT uh environment to do this. So the growth is
13:00
environment to do this. So the growth is
13:00
environment to do this. So the growth is important, new markets, uh easier to go
13:02
important, new markets, uh easier to go
13:02
important, new markets, uh easier to go into new markets, easier to start up new
13:05
into new markets, easier to start up new
13:05
into new markets, easier to start up new factories or anything. And also there of
13:08
factories or anything. And also there of
13:08
factories or anything. And also there of course also a security uh issue or
13:10
course also a security uh issue or
13:10
course also a security uh issue or security area in this because
13:13
security area in this because
13:13
security area in this because >> we see a lot of of of people or
13:16
>> we see a lot of of of people or
13:16
>> we see a lot of of of people or businesses actually doing this for the
13:18
businesses actually doing this for the
13:18
businesses actually doing this for the security part also because of all the
13:21
security part also because of all the
13:21
security part also because of all the all the security technologies that are
13:24
all the security technologies that are
13:24
all the security technologies that are around a a cloud solution today.
13:27
around a a cloud solution today.
13:27
around a a cloud solution today. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think you and I both have
13:29
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think you and I both have
13:29
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think you and I both have been around the cloud long enough to
13:32
been around the cloud long enough to
13:32
been around the cloud long enough to remember that uh security used to be
13:35
remember that uh security used to be
13:35
remember that uh security used to be considered somewhat of a blocker before
13:39
considered somewhat of a blocker before
13:39
considered somewhat of a blocker before because it wasn't at that time really um
13:43
because it wasn't at that time really um
13:43
because it wasn't at that time really um explicit that all of those
13:44
explicit that all of those
13:44
explicit that all of those certifications were checked off the list
13:46
certifications were checked off the list
13:46
certifications were checked off the list and everything was on par and security
13:49
and everything was on par and security
13:49
and everything was on par and security was a question mark or maybe doubted but
13:52
was a question mark or maybe doubted but
13:52
was a question mark or maybe doubted but nowadays I think it's very commonly
13:54
nowadays I think it's very commonly
13:54
nowadays I think it's very commonly known that security is pretty much
13:56
known that security is pretty much
13:56
known that security is pretty much automatically increased once you start
13:58
automatically increased once you start
13:58
automatically increased once you start moving to the cloud. Of course, you can
14:00
moving to the cloud. Of course, you can
14:00
moving to the cloud. Of course, you can make mistakes on any platform, right?
14:02
make mistakes on any platform, right?
14:02
make mistakes on any platform, right? Cloud or no cloud, you can still make
14:04
Cloud or no cloud, you can still make
14:04
Cloud or no cloud, you can still make mistakes, but but the the builtin uh
14:07
mistakes, but but the the builtin uh
14:07
mistakes, but but the the builtin uh sort of services in the in the fundament
14:10
sort of services in the in the fundament
14:10
sort of services in the in the fundament of the cloud makes it so that you have
14:12
of the cloud makes it so that you have
14:12
of the cloud makes it so that you have you have now cloud scale on on your
14:14
you have now cloud scale on on your
14:14
you have now cloud scale on on your protection gear as well, right?
14:16
protection gear as well, right?
14:16
protection gear as well, right? >> Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And that
14:18
>> Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And that
14:18
>> Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And that that's spot on because yeah, 10 15 years
14:21
that's spot on because yeah, 10 15 years
14:21
that's spot on because yeah, 10 15 years ago, cloud was not that secure as it it
14:24
ago, cloud was not that secure as it it
14:24
ago, cloud was not that secure as it it is today. And today it's more an enabler
14:27
is today. And today it's more an enabler
14:27
is today. And today it's more an enabler uh security for going to the cloud
14:29
uh security for going to the cloud
14:29
uh security for going to the cloud sometimes because you actually just have
14:31
sometimes because you actually just have
14:31
sometimes because you actually just have more tools and a more secure envir
14:35
more tools and a more secure envir
14:35
more tools and a more secure envir environment by default in the cloud. Not
14:37
environment by default in the cloud. Not
14:37
environment by default in the cloud. Not saying that you cannot you can also have
14:39
saying that you cannot you can also have
14:39
saying that you cannot you can also have a really secure on premise environment
14:41
a really secure on premise environment
14:41
a really secure on premise environment and there are stuff that needs to be run
14:43
and there are stuff that needs to be run
14:43
and there are stuff that needs to be run on premise but but do but but yeah in
14:46
on premise but but do but but yeah in
14:46
on premise but but do but but yeah in cloud and it can also be really unsecure
14:48
cloud and it can also be really unsecure
14:48
cloud and it can also be really unsecure if you don't do it right in the cloud of
14:49
if you don't do it right in the cloud of
14:50
if you don't do it right in the cloud of course. So
14:50
course. So
14:50
course. So >> anything can right.
14:51
>> anything can right.
14:51
>> anything can right. >> Yeah. Yeah. the governance, the policies
14:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. the governance, the policies
14:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. the governance, the policies that you have available in the cloud is
14:55
that you have available in the cloud is
14:55
that you have available in the cloud is just so uh
14:56
just so uh
14:56
just so uh >> so so big and it's it's so um so good
15:00
>> so so big and it's it's so um so good
15:00
>> so so big and it's it's so um so good today.
15:01
today.
15:01
today. >> Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean anyone can make
15:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean anyone can make
15:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I mean anyone can make a mistake or or do the wrong thing,
15:04
a mistake or or do the wrong thing,
15:04
a mistake or or do the wrong thing, right? Security was excellent at the
15:06
right? Security was excellent at the
15:06
right? Security was excellent at the company, but it was broken by Dave who
15:08
company, but it was broken by Dave who
15:08
company, but it was broken by Dave who had a postit with his password on his
15:10
had a postit with his password on his
15:10
had a postit with his password on his screen, right? I mean it's it's that's
15:13
screen, right? I mean it's it's that's
15:13
screen, right? I mean it's it's that's that can happen, right? But but no, what
15:15
that can happen, right? But but no, what
15:15
that can happen, right? But but no, what I find as as I work in a lot of
15:17
I find as as I work in a lot of
15:17
I find as as I work in a lot of engineering capacities, you know, a
15:19
engineering capacities, you know, a
15:19
engineering capacities, you know, a technical lead and an architect and
15:21
technical lead and an architect and
15:21
technical lead and an architect and these these sort of things with cloud
15:23
these these sort of things with cloud
15:23
these these sort of things with cloud projects and and helping really um hands
15:26
projects and and helping really um hands
15:26
projects and and helping really um hands on to to make companies cloud better.
15:29
on to to make companies cloud better.
15:29
on to to make companies cloud better. That's my job. Um I often often find no
15:32
That's my job. Um I often often find no
15:32
That's my job. Um I often often find no matter almost which customer I work
15:35
matter almost which customer I work
15:35
matter almost which customer I work with, so every no one mentioned, no one
15:37
with, so every no one mentioned, no one
15:37
with, so every no one mentioned, no one forgotten, right? that there is usually
15:40
forgotten, right? that there is usually
15:40
forgotten, right? that there is usually um sort of a discrepancy between what
15:43
um sort of a discrepancy between what
15:43
um sort of a discrepancy between what the cloud engineers or the engineers are
15:46
the cloud engineers or the engineers are
15:46
the cloud engineers or the engineers are doing with cloud and what the company
15:49
doing with cloud and what the company
15:49
doing with cloud and what the company think that they're doing. Um kind of go
15:51
think that they're doing. Um kind of go
15:51
think that they're doing. Um kind of go circling back to that common language
15:53
circling back to that common language
15:53
circling back to that common language and that common understanding which is
15:55
and that common understanding which is
15:55
and that common understanding which is so hard to get. How come it is why do
15:57
so hard to get. How come it is why do
15:57
so hard to get. How come it is why do you think it is so hard to to achieve a
16:00
you think it is so hard to to achieve a
16:00
you think it is so hard to to achieve a good a good uh sort of understanding
16:03
good a good uh sort of understanding
16:03
good a good uh sort of understanding that the the business needs this and
16:05
that the the business needs this and
16:05
that the the business needs this and they have defined we need that and we're
16:07
they have defined we need that and we're
16:07
they have defined we need that and we're going to the cloud because of these
16:09
going to the cloud because of these
16:09
going to the cloud because of these reasons specifically. Why is this so
16:11
reasons specifically. Why is this so
16:11
reasons specifically. Why is this so difficult?
16:13
difficult?
16:13
difficult? Yeah, it's a good question and I think
16:15
Yeah, it's a good question and I think
16:15
Yeah, it's a good question and I think uh when I'm reflecting upon what I at
16:17
uh when I'm reflecting upon what I at
16:17
uh when I'm reflecting upon what I at least have seen, I think that we need to
16:21
least have seen, I think that we need to
16:21
least have seen, I think that we need to make sure that everybody not maybe not
16:23
make sure that everybody not maybe not
16:24
make sure that everybody not maybe not everybody but you need to have
16:25
everybody but you need to have
16:25
everybody but you need to have representative for for all areas of your
16:28
representative for for all areas of your
16:28
representative for for all areas of your IT infrastructure, IT businessation into
16:32
IT infrastructure, IT businessation into
16:32
IT infrastructure, IT businessation into really early into the decision of what
16:34
really early into the decision of what
16:34
really early into the decision of what what what are you going to do now? What
16:36
what what are you going to do now? What
16:36
what what are you going to do now? What what what changes are you doing in
16:38
what what changes are you doing in
16:38
what what changes are you doing in business? If you're kind of buying a new
16:39
business? If you're kind of buying a new
16:40
business? If you're kind of buying a new support system or new CRM system or
16:42
support system or new CRM system or
16:42
support system or new CRM system or you're changing something into in the
16:45
you're changing something into in the
16:45
you're changing something into in the business areas, a lot of times this is
16:47
business areas, a lot of times this is
16:47
business areas, a lot of times this is done month or year before you actually
16:50
done month or year before you actually
16:50
done month or year before you actually involve it or or whoever is is driving
16:54
involve it or or whoever is is driving
16:54
involve it or or whoever is is driving your digital transformation or your
16:56
your digital transformation or your
16:56
your digital transformation or your operating your IT infrastructure because
16:59
operating your IT infrastructure because
16:59
operating your IT infrastructure because it is really the foundation at least the
17:01
it is really the foundation at least the
17:01
it is really the foundation at least the cloud is today
17:03
cloud is today
17:03
cloud is today >> for many of these changes you make in
17:05
>> for many of these changes you make in
17:05
>> for many of these changes you make in the business. So you need uh to to get
17:08
the business. So you need uh to to get
17:08
the business. So you need uh to to get people involved uh of course it's also
17:10
people involved uh of course it's also
17:10
people involved uh of course it's also um a matter of time because resources
17:14
um a matter of time because resources
17:14
um a matter of time because resources >> but involved across departments right?
17:16
>> but involved across departments right?
17:16
>> but involved across departments right? >> Yeah exactly. So you don't have this
17:18
>> Yeah exactly. So you don't have this
17:18
>> Yeah exactly. So you don't have this silo but you actually have a common way
17:20
silo but you actually have a common way
17:20
silo but you actually have a common way of involving people into this decision.
17:23
of involving people into this decision.
17:24
of involving people into this decision. So you kind of get all the barriers in
17:26
So you kind of get all the barriers in
17:26
So you kind of get all the barriers in front uh in the start so you don't meet
17:29
front uh in the start so you don't meet
17:29
front uh in the start so you don't meet them uh 10 months into the project. And
17:32
them uh 10 months into the project. And
17:32
them uh 10 months into the project. And then of course then you start to see
17:35
then of course then you start to see
17:35
then of course then you start to see that if you do that and you communicate
17:38
that if you do that and you communicate
17:38
that if you do that and you communicate one of the big u um the big task for
17:42
one of the big u um the big task for
17:42
one of the big u um the big task for leaders uh at least from from top to
17:45
leaders uh at least from from top to
17:45
leaders uh at least from from top to bottom is to communicate this in the
17:47
bottom is to communicate this in the
17:47
bottom is to communicate this in the right way to
17:48
right way to
17:48
right way to >> uh simply just communicating uh what are
17:52
>> uh simply just communicating uh what are
17:52
>> uh simply just communicating uh what are we doing uh why are we doing this and uh
17:55
we doing uh why are we doing this and uh
17:55
we doing uh why are we doing this and uh and then how is is where people get
17:57
and then how is is where people get
17:58
and then how is is where people get together on how do we actually do this
17:59
together on how do we actually do this
17:59
together on how do we actually do this >> right the leadership couldn't possibly
18:01
>> right the leadership couldn't possibly
18:01
>> right the leadership couldn't possibly say how because they honestly are not
18:03
say how because they honestly are not
18:03
say how because they honestly are not capable of of that's not their job.
18:05
capable of of that's not their job.
18:05
capable of of that's not their job. They're not that's not in the job
18:06
They're not that's not in the job
18:06
They're not that's not in the job description. They're not engineers,
18:08
description. They're not engineers,
18:08
description. They're not engineers, right? Technically typically, right? Not
18:10
right? Technically typically, right? Not
18:10
right? Technically typically, right? Not often, right?
18:11
often, right?
18:11
often, right? >> Um so I I agree with that. That's that's
18:14
>> Um so I I agree with that. That's that's
18:14
>> Um so I I agree with that. That's that's a really good way of of capturing it. I
18:16
a really good way of of capturing it. I
18:16
a really good way of of capturing it. I really like what you said there and and
18:18
really like what you said there and and
18:18
really like what you said there and and that resonates very well with me that
18:20
that resonates very well with me that
18:20
that resonates very well with me that you kind of have to have people from all
18:22
you kind of have to have people from all
18:22
you kind of have to have people from all departments and I've I've been known to
18:23
departments and I've I've been known to
18:24
departments and I've I've been known to say or I've said a couple of times uh by
18:26
say or I've said a couple of times uh by
18:26
say or I've said a couple of times uh by now that I think the the the single most
18:28
now that I think the the the single most
18:28
now that I think the the the single most important person in the room in the
18:30
important person in the room in the
18:30
important person in the room in the boardroom when you make the uh the
18:33
boardroom when you make the uh the
18:33
boardroom when you make the uh the decisions about the cloud strategy uh is
18:36
decisions about the cloud strategy uh is
18:36
decisions about the cloud strategy uh is the human res human human resource
18:38
the human res human human resource
18:38
the human res human human resource director in my opinion.
18:40
director in my opinion.
18:40
director in my opinion. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely they are
18:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely they are
18:42
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely they are really important today.
18:44
really important today.
18:44
really important today. Yeah. both both in terms of when you can
18:46
Yeah. both both in terms of when you can
18:46
Yeah. both both in terms of when you can say how how do you actually make an uh a
18:49
say how how do you actually make an uh a
18:49
say how how do you actually make an uh a business or workplace attractive to get
18:51
business or workplace attractive to get
18:51
business or workplace attractive to get new hires etc but also what how are we
18:54
new hires etc but also what how are we
18:54
new hires etc but also what how are we working with all these changes when you
18:56
working with all these changes when you
18:56
working with all these changes when you actually do uh digital transformation
18:58
actually do uh digital transformation
18:58
actually do uh digital transformation because that are a lot of changes both
19:00
because that are a lot of changes both
19:00
because that are a lot of changes both in the business and in the IT.
19:02
in the business and in the IT.
19:02
in the business and in the IT. >> Yeah. Yeah. And what I will say about
19:04
>> Yeah. Yeah. And what I will say about
19:04
>> Yeah. Yeah. And what I will say about this being close to the business is that
19:07
this being close to the business is that
19:07
this being close to the business is that um try ask if you get other people into
19:10
um try ask if you get other people into
19:10
um try ask if you get other people into this that are not developers or that are
19:12
this that are not developers or that are
19:12
this that are not developers or that are maybe leader CIOS or operating people.
19:15
maybe leader CIOS or operating people.
19:15
maybe leader CIOS or operating people. How many times have they been attending
19:18
How many times have they been attending
19:18
How many times have they been attending >> uh a backlog meeting or a product
19:21
>> uh a backlog meeting or a product
19:21
>> uh a backlog meeting or a product meeting for developing a new uh where
19:24
meeting for developing a new uh where
19:24
meeting for developing a new uh where where the where the developer has a what
19:26
where the where the developer has a what
19:26
where the where the developer has a what you call it a standup meeting in the
19:27
you call it a standup meeting in the
19:27
you call it a standup meeting in the morning or grooming of the backlog or
19:29
morning or grooming of the backlog or
19:29
morning or grooming of the backlog or something like that. actually
19:31
something like that. actually
19:31
something like that. actually participating in these meetings seeing
19:34
participating in these meetings seeing
19:34
participating in these meetings seeing what the product managers are are asking
19:37
what the product managers are are asking
19:37
what the product managers are are asking for what are the road maps for for the
19:39
for what are the road maps for for the
19:39
for what are the road maps for for the products etc and I think the answer is
19:43
products etc and I think the answer is
19:43
products etc and I think the answer is normally they don't actually have tried
19:44
normally they don't actually have tried
19:44
normally they don't actually have tried to attempt this as much unless you have
19:47
to attempt this as much unless you have
19:48
to attempt this as much unless you have changed your whole organization into an
19:50
changed your whole organization into an
19:50
changed your whole organization into an agile uh
19:51
agile uh
19:51
agile uh >> no no but still and you have seen this
19:53
>> no no but still and you have seen this
19:53
>> no no but still and you have seen this you've seen some some managers like that
19:56
you've seen some some managers like that
19:56
you've seen some some managers like that attend these um
19:57
attend these um
19:57
attend these um >> that's really really interesting that's
19:59
>> that's really really interesting that's
19:59
>> that's really really interesting that's that's a That's solid piece of advice
20:02
that's a That's solid piece of advice
20:02
that's a That's solid piece of advice there because I don't think that I don't
20:04
there because I don't think that I don't
20:04
there because I don't think that I don't know that I've really ever seen that.
20:06
know that I've really ever seen that.
20:06
know that I've really ever seen that. >> No, and I think that and maybe they
20:09
>> No, and I think that and maybe they
20:09
>> No, and I think that and maybe they don't need to be there uh a lot of
20:11
don't need to be there uh a lot of
20:12
don't need to be there uh a lot of times, but they just need to listen in
20:14
times, but they just need to listen in
20:14
times, but they just need to listen in like you know when a new executive comes
20:16
like you know when a new executive comes
20:16
like you know when a new executive comes in and listening to the support calls in
20:18
in and listening to the support calls in
20:18
in and listening to the support calls in a call center or something like that.
20:20
a call center or something like that.
20:20
a call center or something like that. Try to listen in and understand what
20:22
Try to listen in and understand what
20:22
Try to listen in and understand what they are actually talking about. What
20:24
they are actually talking about. What
20:24
they are actually talking about. What are the language they are talking
20:26
are the language they are talking
20:26
are the language they are talking because a lot of these product managers
20:28
because a lot of these product managers
20:28
because a lot of these product managers or is it product uh project managers or
20:31
or is it product uh project managers or
20:31
or is it product uh project managers or product managers no matter what you call
20:33
product managers no matter what you call
20:33
product managers no matter what you call them today they're responsible for
20:35
them today they're responsible for
20:35
them today they're responsible for driving uh or developing some new
20:38
driving uh or developing some new
20:38
driving uh or developing some new feature or new product or so on and they
20:41
feature or new product or so on and they
20:41
feature or new product or so on and they have a deadline they have a they have a
20:43
have a deadline they have a they have a
20:43
have a deadline they have a they have a budget etc.
20:44
budget etc.
20:44
budget etc. uh but they need the the the IT the
20:47
uh but they need the the the IT the
20:47
uh but they need the the the IT the digital uh areas need to be part of this
20:50
digital uh areas need to be part of this
20:50
digital uh areas need to be part of this and of course a lot of this agile
20:52
and of course a lot of this agile
20:52
and of course a lot of this agile transformation are doing um um doing
20:56
transformation are doing um um doing
20:56
transformation are doing um um doing stuff to to actually enable this when
20:58
stuff to to actually enable this when
20:58
stuff to to actually enable this when you have a a total agile organization
21:00
you have a a total agile organization
21:00
you have a a total agile organization but you still have trouble when you also
21:02
but you still have trouble when you also
21:02
but you still have trouble when you also have a a full agile organization you
21:05
have a a full agile organization you
21:05
have a a full agile organization you probably also see that customers
21:07
probably also see that customers
21:07
probably also see that customers >> um and and there there might not be a a
21:09
>> um and and there there might not be a a
21:10
>> um and and there there might not be a a silver bullet but I think the the key
21:12
silver bullet but I think the the key
21:12
silver bullet but I think the the key here is be curious about other people's
21:16
here is be curious about other people's
21:16
here is be curious about other people's areas. So you break down these silos and
21:19
areas. So you break down these silos and
21:19
areas. So you break down these silos and be be part invite yourself into these
21:22
be be part invite yourself into these
21:22
be be part invite yourself into these meetings and understand especially what
21:24
meetings and understand especially what
21:24
meetings and understand especially what are the business uh looking for.
21:27
are the business uh looking for.
21:27
are the business uh looking for. >> I really like that. I really that's why
21:29
>> I really like that. I really that's why
21:29
>> I really like that. I really that's why you said u to me before we started this
21:32
you said u to me before we started this
21:32
you said u to me before we started this this episode that it's about it's a
21:33
this episode that it's about it's a
21:33
this episode that it's about it's a people game.
21:34
people game.
21:34
people game. >> Yeah.
21:35
>> Yeah.
21:35
>> Yeah. >> I really like that. Well, that this is
21:38
>> I really like that. Well, that this is
21:38
>> I really like that. Well, that this is all the time we have together today. I'm
21:40
all the time we have together today. I'm
21:40
all the time we have together today. I'm I'm so sorry. We could probably talk
21:42
I'm so sorry. We could probably talk
21:42
I'm so sorry. We could probably talk about this for hours,
21:44
about this for hours,
21:44
about this for hours, >> sure,
21:45
>> sure,
21:45
>> sure, >> and get into the nitty-gritty of it all,
21:47
>> and get into the nitty-gritty of it all,
21:47
>> and get into the nitty-gritty of it all, but this episode has come to an end. I
21:49
but this episode has come to an end. I
21:50
but this episode has come to an end. I want to thank you so much, Mads, for
21:51
want to thank you so much, Mads, for
21:51
want to thank you so much, Mads, for being on the show today. This was really
21:54
being on the show today. This was really
21:54
being on the show today. This was really excellent content for the cloud show.
21:55
excellent content for the cloud show.
21:55
excellent content for the cloud show. Thank you so much.
21:57
Thank you so much.
21:57
Thank you so much. >> Yeah, you're welcome. Good seeing you.
21:58
>> Yeah, you're welcome. Good seeing you.
21:58
>> Yeah, you're welcome. Good seeing you. Have a nice evening.
22:00
Have a nice evening.
22:00
Have a nice evening. >> Absolutely. And u audience, I will see
22:02
>> Absolutely. And u audience, I will see
22:02
>> Absolutely. And u audience, I will see you guys next time on the cloud show.
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