Up next in 10
Join this live session with Magnus Mårtensson ft. Lars Klint for the next episode of The Cloud Show with Magnus Mårtensson on June 26, at 01:05 PM (EST).
The show is about cloud leadership and all the important questions relating to cloud projects. Certainly, many matters when a company is going to and wants to be successful in the cloud, are about technology. However, there are many additional matters, adjacent to technology, that we also need to tend to regarding business strategy, human resources, organizational change, planning for a technical cloud approach, and many more questions. These conversations are critical for a healthy cloud and for a swift and accurate cloud approach.
GUEST SPEAKER
Lars Klint is a Principal Magician with Arkahna in Australia, an author, trainer, Microsoft Azure MVP, community leader, aspiring YouTube host, and part-time classic car collector.
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0:04
hello everyone and welcome back to
0:06
hello everyone and welcome back to
0:06
hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the cloud show I am
0:08
another episode of the cloud show I am
0:08
another episode of the cloud show I am so happy to talk to a good old friend of
0:09
so happy to talk to a good old friend of
0:09
so happy to talk to a good old friend of mine today he is actually living in
0:12
mine today he is actually living in
0:12
mine today he is actually living in Australia but he's from Denmark so you
0:14
Australia but he's from Denmark so you
0:14
Australia but he's from Denmark so you know there's that I'm Swedish and he's
0:16
know there's that I'm Swedish and he's
0:16
know there's that I'm Swedish and he's Denmark we're we're having this thing
0:18
Denmark we're we're having this thing
0:18
Denmark we're we're having this thing anyway what we're going to talk about
0:20
anyway what we're going to talk about
0:20
anyway what we're going to talk about today is the Troubles of rolling out new
0:23
today is the Troubles of rolling out new
0:23
today is the Troubles of rolling out new features and uh rolling out new features
0:25
features and uh rolling out new features
0:25
features and uh rolling out new features to your applications uh with basically
0:28
to your applications uh with basically
0:28
to your applications uh with basically you run con you know automated
0:30
you run con you know automated
0:30
you run con you know automated deployments and things like that and you
0:31
deployments and things like that and you
0:31
deployments and things like that and you want to be able to turn on new features
0:34
want to be able to turn on new features
0:34
want to be able to turn on new features in production as you go so feature
0:36
in production as you go so feature
0:36
in production as you go so feature management will be the topic of today
0:38
management will be the topic of today
0:38
management will be the topic of today with Lars Clint on the cloud
0:42
with Lars Clint on the cloud
0:42
with Lars Clint on the cloud [Music]
0:50
show hey my bu hello I kind of gave it
0:54
show hey my bu hello I kind of gave it
0:54
show hey my bu hello I kind of gave it away already that you're Danish and I'm
0:56
away already that you're Danish and I'm
0:56
away already that you're Danish and I'm Swedish it's it's it's a ageold joke
0:58
Swedish it's it's it's a ageold joke
0:58
Swedish it's it's it's a ageold joke like we we keep our countryes keep
1:00
like we we keep our countryes keep
1:00
like we we keep our countryes keep making jokes about each other as we
1:02
making jokes about each other as we
1:02
making jokes about each other as we should I think it's part of Danish law
1:04
should I think it's part of Danish law
1:04
should I think it's part of Danish law that you have to make fun of Swedish
1:05
that you have to make fun of Swedish
1:05
that you have to make fun of Swedish people I think it's important yeah yes
1:07
people I think it's important yeah yes
1:07
people I think it's important yeah yes it's important I mean it's it's better
1:08
it's important I mean it's it's better
1:09
it's important I mean it's it's better that way I mean we used to be at War so
1:11
that way I mean we used to be at War so
1:11
that way I mean we used to be at War so it's it's much better to just to just
1:13
it's it's much better to just to just
1:13
it's it's much better to just to just make make war with war with words is
1:15
make make war with war with words is
1:15
make make war with war with words is much
1:16
much
1:16
much better it's fun that's for
1:19
better it's fun that's for
1:19
better it's fun that's for sure it's more funny but you live down
1:21
sure it's more funny but you live down
1:21
sure it's more funny but you live down under I do I do I live in in the state
1:24
under I do I do I live in in the state
1:24
under I do I do I live in in the state of Victoria in Australia and I have
1:26
of Victoria in Australia and I have
1:27
of Victoria in Australia and I have lived here for about 20 years so I'm
1:28
lived here for about 20 years so I'm
1:28
lived here for about 20 years so I'm almost more Australian than Danish
1:30
almost more Australian than Danish
1:31
almost more Australian than Danish almost oh that's crazy all right well
1:33
almost oh that's crazy all right well
1:33
almost oh that's crazy all right well that's cool so um you're down under and
1:35
that's cool so um you're down under and
1:35
that's cool so um you're down under and I'm up here in Sweden it's it's getting
1:37
I'm up here in Sweden it's it's getting
1:37
I'm up here in Sweden it's it's getting warm up here and it's getting what not
1:39
warm up here and it's getting what not
1:39
warm up here and it's getting what not cold but it's getting winterish it's
1:42
cold but it's getting winterish it's
1:42
cold but it's getting winterish it's been odd we we normally is pretty cold
1:44
been odd we we normally is pretty cold
1:44
been odd we we normally is pretty cold here um we live up in what's called The
1:46
here um we live up in what's called The
1:46
here um we live up in what's called The Highlands so we actually have ski areas
1:47
Highlands so we actually have ski areas
1:48
Highlands so we actually have ski areas about 90 minutes from us so we can go
1:49
about 90 minutes from us so we can go
1:49
about 90 minutes from us so we can go skiing in Winter um but we have had very
1:52
skiing in Winter um but we have had very
1:52
skiing in Winter um but we have had very mild weather it's odd like the grass is
1:54
mild weather it's odd like the grass is
1:54
mild weather it's odd like the grass is growing very well it's very strange as
1:56
growing very well it's very strange as
1:56
growing very well it's very strange as Sun I saw something like had a something
2:00
Sun I saw something like had a something
2:00
Sun I saw something like had a something going with a lawnmower uh just now I I
2:03
going with a lawnmower uh just now I I
2:03
going with a lawnmower uh just now I I do it's
2:05
do it's
2:05
do it's actually we can talk about that but then
2:07
actually we can talk about that but then
2:07
actually we can talk about that but then we might be here a while I know I know
2:09
we might be here a while I know I know
2:09
we might be here a while I know I know know let's not let's not go there you
2:11
know let's not let's not go there you
2:11
know let's not let's not go there you are you are correct that's that's um
2:13
are you are correct that's that's um
2:13
are you are correct that's that's um that's absolutely right so uh tell us
2:15
that's absolutely right so uh tell us
2:15
that's absolutely right so uh tell us what you do tell us who you are what you
2:17
what you do tell us who you are what you
2:17
what you do tell us who you are what you do um well so my name is l hello
2:22
do um well so my name is l hello
2:22
do um well so my name is l hello um but we'll do this in English um and I
2:27
um but we'll do this in English um and I
2:27
um but we'll do this in English um and I I've been in tech for 25 30 years no
2:30
I've been in tech for 25 30 years no
2:30
I've been in tech for 25 30 years no actually more I got my first computer
2:32
actually more I got my first computer
2:32
actually more I got my first computer comod 64 when I was eight so yeah um
2:36
comod 64 when I was eight so yeah um
2:36
comod 64 when I was eight so yeah um that kind of aged me as well because I'm
2:39
that kind of aged me as well because I'm
2:39
that kind of aged me as well because I'm old as old as you though and um just
2:41
old as old as you though and um just
2:41
old as old as you though and um just wanted to get that in there and I'm a
2:44
wanted to get that in there and I'm a
2:44
wanted to get that in there and I'm a I'm a Microsoft MVP for aure and I have
2:46
I'm a Microsoft MVP for aure and I have
2:46
I'm a Microsoft MVP for aure and I have been for 10 11 years now yeah which
2:49
been for 10 11 years now yeah which
2:49
been for 10 11 years now yeah which means that I do talk an awful lot about
2:51
means that I do talk an awful lot about
2:51
means that I do talk an awful lot about Asia because I kind of think that well
2:54
Asia because I kind of think that well
2:54
Asia because I kind of think that well I've always I've used it since day one I
2:57
I've always I've used it since day one I
2:57
I've always I've used it since day one I used it when there was a silver light
2:58
used it when there was a silver light
2:58
used it when there was a silver light portal and I'm sure you did too this as
3:00
portal and I'm sure you did too this as
3:00
portal and I'm sure you did too this as well I did I did yeah I miss it the old
3:04
well I did I did yeah I miss it the old
3:04
well I did I did yeah I miss it the old windows phone days now so I I've done a
3:07
windows phone days now so I I've done a
3:07
windows phone days now so I I've done a whole bunch of things within AIA and
3:09
whole bunch of things within AIA and
3:09
whole bunch of things within AIA and Microsoft world as well um I've done
3:13
Microsoft world as well um I've done
3:13
Microsoft world as well um I've done Consulting I've done product development
3:15
Consulting I've done product development
3:15
Consulting I've done product development I've done obviously MVP we get to do a
3:17
I've done obviously MVP we get to do a
3:17
I've done obviously MVP we get to do a lot of fun stuff at Microsoft and give
3:18
lot of fun stuff at Microsoft and give
3:18
lot of fun stuff at Microsoft and give them feedback on all sorts of stuff and
3:21
them feedback on all sorts of stuff and
3:21
them feedback on all sorts of stuff and um it's just a nice place to be and
3:23
um it's just a nice place to be and
3:23
um it's just a nice place to be and that's probably for sure yeah yeah
3:26
that's probably for sure yeah yeah
3:26
that's probably for sure yeah yeah definitely and and and in this space
3:28
definitely and and and in this space
3:28
definitely and and and in this space then like to to talk about what we're
3:30
then like to to talk about what we're
3:30
then like to to talk about what we're going to talk about today in this right
3:33
going to talk about today in this right
3:33
going to talk about today in this right and in this space um features rolling
3:36
and in this space um features rolling
3:36
and in this space um features rolling out new features uh we are all talking
3:38
out new features uh we are all talking
3:38
out new features uh we are all talking about having uh automated build and
3:40
about having uh automated build and
3:40
about having uh automated build and deployments set up so that everything
3:42
deployments set up so that everything
3:42
deployments set up so that everything just rolls out as soon as you have built
3:44
just rolls out as soon as you have built
3:44
just rolls out as soon as you have built it it rolls out all the way and it can
3:46
it it rolls out all the way and it can
3:46
it it rolls out all the way and it can go all the way to production but you
3:48
go all the way to production but you
3:48
go all the way to production but you might want to you might yes you should H
3:50
might want to you might yes you should H
3:50
might want to you might yes you should H if you can you really should and and you
3:52
if you can you really should and and you
3:52
if you can you really should and and you want to be able to like switch on new
3:55
want to be able to like switch on new
3:55
want to be able to like switch on new functionality and manage that space am I
3:58
functionality and manage that space am I
3:58
functionality and manage that space am I right yeah it's it's part of computing
4:01
right yeah it's it's part of computing
4:01
right yeah it's it's part of computing for as long as I've been a software
4:02
for as long as I've been a software
4:02
for as long as I've been a software developer to be honest it's always the
4:04
developer to be honest it's always the
4:04
developer to be honest it's always the thing of well we need to build this new
4:06
thing of well we need to build this new
4:06
thing of well we need to build this new feature and then we got to roll it out
4:07
feature and then we got to roll it out
4:08
feature and then we got to roll it out on some arbitrary date that someone else
4:10
on some arbitrary date that someone else
4:10
on some arbitrary date that someone else decided um It's usually the case because
4:12
decided um It's usually the case because
4:12
decided um It's usually the case because you want to do a big spiel about it or
4:14
you want to do a big spiel about it or
4:14
you want to do a big spiel about it or maybe it's just a small feature you just
4:15
maybe it's just a small feature you just
4:15
maybe it's just a small feature you just sort of you know push out underneath
4:17
sort of you know push out underneath
4:17
sort of you know push out underneath everybody's attention but there is some
4:20
everybody's attention but there is some
4:20
everybody's attention but there is some sort of um feature management going on
4:22
sort of um feature management going on
4:22
sort of um feature management going on and there has been forever because we
4:24
and there has been forever because we
4:24
and there has been forever because we always build new features into software
4:26
always build new features into software
4:26
always build new features into software we start with a little you know MVP type
4:28
we start with a little you know MVP type
4:28
we start with a little you know MVP type project and then we just keep iterating
4:31
project and then we just keep iterating
4:31
project and then we just keep iterating on it and and that's just the way
4:32
on it and and that's just the way
4:32
on it and and that's just the way software is built um we have tried in
4:35
software is built um we have tried in
4:35
software is built um we have tried in the past to build everything from the
4:36
the past to build everything from the
4:36
the past to build everything from the start um and that that doesn't go well
4:40
start um and that that doesn't go well
4:40
start um and that that doesn't go well it doesn't go well no it doesn't go well
4:42
it doesn't go well no it doesn't go well
4:42
it doesn't go well no it doesn't go well at all so so ideally you would want to
4:45
at all so so ideally you would want to
4:45
at all so so ideally you would want to build a new feature large or small you
4:47
build a new feature large or small you
4:47
build a new feature large or small you have a new thing that's going to go out
4:49
have a new thing that's going to go out
4:49
have a new thing that's going to go out you want to build it you want to deploy
4:51
you want to build it you want to deploy
4:51
you want to build it you want to deploy it out there without it being available
4:53
it out there without it being available
4:53
it out there without it being available to your users it's it's there but it's
4:56
to your users it's it's there but it's
4:56
to your users it's it's there but it's not being used at the moment but
4:57
not being used at the moment but
4:57
not being used at the moment but everything still work the same as before
5:00
everything still work the same as before
5:00
everything still work the same as before and then you want to turn a switch
5:02
and then you want to turn a switch
5:02
and then you want to turn a switch that's right so so you're already you're
5:03
that's right so so you're already you're
5:04
that's right so so you're already you're already putting like you you it's very
5:06
already putting like you you it's very
5:06
already putting like you you it's very nice leading I didn't even prompt this
5:08
nice leading I didn't even prompt this
5:08
nice leading I didn't even prompt this but you're already sort of picking on
5:10
but you're already sort of picking on
5:11
but you're already sort of picking on the first problem that that we found at
5:13
the first problem that that we found at
5:13
the first problem that that we found at aana for this particular um process I
5:17
aana for this particular um process I
5:17
aana for this particular um process I guess and that is who's in charge of
5:20
guess and that is who's in charge of
5:20
guess and that is who's in charge of pressing that button yeah how does that
5:23
pressing that button yeah how does that
5:23
pressing that button yeah how does that happen yeah absolutely it can be like
5:26
happen yeah absolutely it can be like
5:26
happen yeah absolutely it can be like this big announce thing right it can be
5:27
this big announce thing right it can be
5:27
this big announce thing right it can be like oh they're announcing something
5:29
like oh they're announcing something
5:29
like oh they're announcing something like I mean I mean how does how does it
5:32
like I mean I mean how does how does it
5:32
like I mean I mean how does how does it practically get done who presses the
5:34
practically get done who presses the
5:34
practically get done who presses the button how does it get into production
5:36
button how does it get into production
5:36
button how does it get into production right is it you well it shouldn't be
5:39
right is it you well it shouldn't be
5:39
right is it you well it shouldn't be right I'm a software Dev I should not be
5:42
right I'm a software Dev I should not be
5:42
right I'm a software Dev I should not be any L anywhere near that thing right and
5:44
any L anywhere near that thing right and
5:44
any L anywhere near that thing right and and that's been the problem is that it's
5:46
and that's been the problem is that it's
5:46
and that's been the problem is that it's been in code so we had this problem of
5:49
been in code so we had this problem of
5:49
been in code so we had this problem of developers were in charge of these
5:50
developers were in charge of these
5:50
developers were in charge of these features they'll build into code and
5:52
features they'll build into code and
5:52
features they'll build into code and there would be some sort of feature
5:53
there would be some sort of feature
5:53
there would be some sort of feature management system developers or the
5:55
management system developers or the
5:55
management system developers or the devops people is probably more relevant
5:57
devops people is probably more relevant
5:57
devops people is probably more relevant in current today's climate would in
6:00
in current today's climate would in
6:00
in current today's climate would in charge of saying that is now live um
6:03
charge of saying that is now live um
6:03
charge of saying that is now live um yeah and often that meant that you had
6:05
yeah and often that meant that you had
6:05
yeah and often that meant that you had to do some sort of deployment to make it
6:08
to do some sort of deployment to make it
6:08
to do some sort of deployment to make it go live right yes there are ways of
6:11
go live right yes there are ways of
6:11
go live right yes there are ways of doing it so you toggle things on and
6:14
doing it so you toggle things on and
6:14
doing it so you toggle things on and off which there are a lot of products
6:16
off which there are a lot of products
6:16
off which there are a lot of products that do that and there's there's a
6:17
that do that and there's there's a
6:17
that do that and there's there's a couple of issues with that as well but
6:20
couple of issues with that as well but
6:20
couple of issues with that as well but back to my original question who should
6:21
back to my original question who should
6:21
back to my original question who should be in charge magnet who should be in
6:23
be in charge magnet who should be in
6:23
be in charge magnet who should be in charge of saying let's launch are you
6:26
charge of saying let's launch are you
6:26
charge of saying let's launch are you saying that a that a non-technical
6:28
saying that a that a non-technical
6:28
saying that a that a non-technical person should be in charge that like a
6:30
person should be in charge that like a
6:30
person should be in charge that like a manager oh a product owner a product
6:34
manager oh a product owner a product
6:34
manager oh a product owner a product owner interesting tell me as
6:37
owner interesting tell me as
6:37
owner interesting tell me as technologist we don't care no no true I
6:41
technologist we don't care no no true I
6:41
technologist we don't care no no true I have a I have a work item in a in a
6:43
have a I have a work item in a in a
6:43
have a I have a work item in a in a backlog somewhere that I have been
6:44
backlog somewhere that I have been
6:44
backlog somewhere that I have been working on with this feature thing I
6:46
working on with this feature thing I
6:46
working on with this feature thing I have worked on it I am done with that I
6:49
have worked on it I am done with that I
6:49
have worked on it I am done with that I just don't want to care I didn't want to
6:50
just don't want to care I didn't want to
6:50
just don't want to care I didn't want to care about how it got deployed into
6:52
care about how it got deployed into
6:52
care about how it got deployed into production I don't I don't want to care
6:54
production I don't I don't want to care
6:54
production I don't I don't want to care about when somebody wants to use it I
6:56
about when somebody wants to use it I
6:56
about when somebody wants to use it I just built it I'm doing I'm doing the
6:58
just built it I'm doing I'm doing the
6:58
just built it I'm doing I'm doing the next work item now
7:00
next work item now
7:00
next work item now that's right you you know it works but
7:02
that's right you you know it works but
7:02
that's right you you know it works but you don't care when it works but it's
7:04
you don't care when it works but it's
7:04
you don't care when it works but it's that sort of separation and I think
7:06
that sort of separation and I think
7:06
that sort of separation and I think that's really important and the problems
7:09
that's really important and the problems
7:09
that's really important and the problems that you have when that separation is
7:10
that you have when that separation is
7:10
that you have when that separation is not present is that you start stepping
7:13
not present is that you start stepping
7:13
not present is that you start stepping on each other's toes and you start
7:15
on each other's toes and you start
7:15
on each other's toes and you start having these 2 am deployments on a
7:17
having these 2 am deployments on a
7:17
having these 2 am deployments on a Friday because no one could figure out
7:20
Friday because no one could figure out
7:20
Friday because no one could figure out what was happening um and then so so
7:22
what was happening um and then so so
7:22
what was happening um and then so so that's problem number one to solve that
7:25
that's problem number one to solve that
7:25
that's problem number one to solve that problem number two I find oh we found I
7:28
problem number two I find oh we found I
7:28
problem number two I find oh we found I keep saying I I didn't come up with all
7:30
keep saying I I didn't come up with all
7:30
keep saying I I didn't come up with all this I'm just sort of riding the wave of
7:32
this I'm just sort of riding the wave of
7:32
this I'm just sort of riding the wave of of Brilliance here someone else is
7:34
of Brilliance here someone else is
7:34
of Brilliance here someone else is Brilliance yeah standing on the shoulder
7:36
Brilliance yeah standing on the shoulder
7:36
Brilliance yeah standing on the shoulder of giant we always do right we we who
7:39
of giant we always do right we we who
7:39
of giant we always do right we we who yeah yeah no it's it's it's we've done
7:42
yeah yeah no it's it's it's we've done
7:42
yeah yeah no it's it's it's we've done all this work internally at Arana right
7:43
all this work internally at Arana right
7:43
all this work internally at Arana right that's why I'm s Keen to talk about
7:46
that's why I'm s Keen to talk about
7:46
that's why I'm s Keen to talk about it so the this the next step is then
7:49
it so the this the next step is then
7:49
it so the this the next step is then okay well as you might know there's how
7:51
okay well as you might know there's how
7:52
okay well as you might know there's how many how many environments do you have
7:54
many how many environments do you have
7:54
many how many environments do you have when you work on a project I mean so so
7:57
when you work on a project I mean so so
7:57
when you work on a project I mean so so test and deployment and and you know
7:59
test and deployment and and you know
7:59
test and deployment and and you know pre-production there can be a few like I
8:02
pre-production there can be a few like I
8:02
pre-production there can be a few like I I I'd venture to say that any any
8:04
I I'd venture to say that any any
8:04
I I'd venture to say that any any project of of of size probably has three
8:07
project of of of size probably has three
8:07
project of of of size probably has three to four thereabout that's pretty common
8:11
to four thereabout that's pretty common
8:11
to four thereabout that's pretty common righte and a or yeah yeah might have
8:15
righte and a or yeah yeah might have
8:15
righte and a or yeah yeah might have showcase that clients can log into and
8:17
showcase that clients can log into and
8:17
showcase that clients can log into and Dem demo envir yeah and and the the
8:21
Dem demo envir yeah and and the the
8:21
Dem demo envir yeah and and the the issue here I know you might have already
8:22
issue here I know you might have already
8:22
issue here I know you might have already guessed it also you dear listener or
8:24
guessed it also you dear listener or
8:24
guessed it also you dear listener or viewer depending how you're consuming
8:26
viewer depending how you're consuming
8:26
viewer depending how you're consuming this um is that how do you make sure
8:29
this um is that how do you make sure
8:29
this um is that how do you make sure that they're in sync oh yeah right how
8:33
that they're in sync oh yeah right how
8:33
that they're in sync oh yeah right how do you make sure that this particular
8:35
do you make sure that this particular
8:35
do you make sure that this particular feature that you just built there new
8:37
feature that you just built there new
8:37
feature that you just built there new amazing magic wand that you just came up
8:40
amazing magic wand that you just came up
8:40
amazing magic wand that you just came up with make sure that that works yeah that
8:42
with make sure that that works yeah that
8:42
with make sure that that works yeah that it works on all of the environments but
8:44
it works on all of the environments but
8:44
it works on all of the environments but it's not yes released it's in staging
8:47
it's not yes released it's in staging
8:47
it's not yes released it's in staging because we got it tested but it's also
8:49
because we got it tested but it's also
8:49
because we got it tested but it's also on the showcase for the client but it's
8:50
on the showcase for the client but it's
8:50
on the showcase for the client but it's not in production and that separation
8:53
not in production and that separation
8:53
not in production and that separation starts become really tricky um it does
8:57
starts become really tricky um it does
8:57
starts become really tricky um it does we we we spoke to one of our clients and
9:01
we we we spoke to one of our clients and
9:01
we we we spoke to one of our clients and they had 7,000 feature Flags just get
9:04
they had 7,000 feature Flags just get
9:04
they had 7,000 feature Flags just get your head around that
9:06
your head around that
9:06
your head around that 7,000 that's a lot of feature Flags
9:08
7,000 that's a lot of feature Flags
9:08
7,000 that's a lot of feature Flags that's a lot it's big company big
9:10
that's a lot it's big company big
9:10
that's a lot it's big company big platform but that's a lot of feature
9:12
platform but that's a lot of feature
9:12
platform but that's a lot of feature Flags right which specifically feature
9:14
Flags right which specifically feature
9:14
Flags right which specifically feature Flags onof type Boolean almost right and
9:17
Flags onof type Boolean almost right and
9:17
Flags onof type Boolean almost right and the problem they had that we were trying
9:19
the problem they had that we were trying
9:19
the problem they had that we were trying to then help them with was that in their
9:21
to then help them with was that in their
9:21
to then help them with was that in their Cloud
9:23
Cloud
9:23
Cloud environment they would have to manage
9:25
environment they would have to manage
9:25
environment they would have to manage all these feature flags and it would
9:27
all these feature flags and it would
9:27
all these feature flags and it would take them two weeks
9:29
take them two weeks
9:29
take them two weeks to deploy something to
9:31
to deploy something to
9:31
to deploy something to production yeah that's just sad that
9:33
production yeah that's just sad that
9:33
production yeah that's just sad that makes me sad it does and and it's I wish
9:36
makes me sad it does and and it's I wish
9:36
makes me sad it does and and it's I wish I was making it up but I really am not
9:38
I was making it up but I really am not
9:38
I was making it up but I really am not it's and it's not as uncommon as you
9:40
it's and it's not as uncommon as you
9:40
it's and it's not as uncommon as you think no and this was it was no one's
9:42
think no and this was it was no one's
9:42
think no and this was it was no one's fault it was something that had
9:44
fault it was something that had
9:44
fault it was something that had developed from way back when they first
9:46
developed from way back when they first
9:46
developed from way back when they first started building the platform and
9:48
started building the platform and
9:48
started building the platform and developers are go oh this is a great way
9:49
developers are go oh this is a great way
9:49
developers are go oh this is a great way of doing it we can easy do in this Jason
9:51
of doing it we can easy do in this Jason
9:51
of doing it we can easy do in this Jason file as it turned out to be um but then
9:54
file as it turned out to be um but then
9:54
file as it turned out to be um but then it grew and it grew and it grew and
9:55
it grew and it grew and it grew and
9:55
it grew and it grew and it grew and suddenly someone else took it over and
9:57
suddenly someone else took it over and
9:57
suddenly someone else took it over and it just became this Behemoth that
9:59
it just became this Behemoth that
9:59
it just became this Behemoth that requireed several deployments just to
10:00
requireed several deployments just to
10:00
requireed several deployments just to get it up to speed and they still
10:02
get it up to speed and they still
10:02
get it up to speed and they still weren't sure that whatever was in
10:04
weren't sure that whatever was in
10:04
weren't sure that whatever was in development was also in production and
10:06
development was also in production and
10:06
development was also in production and what was turned on and off right so you
10:08
what was turned on and off right so you
10:08
what was turned on and off right so you basically had a separate config file for
10:10
basically had a separate config file for
10:10
basically had a separate config file for each environment that you had to keep
10:11
each environment that you had to keep
10:11
each environment that you had to keep track of so that's another really
10:15
track of so that's another really
10:15
track of so that's another really interesting problem to solve like
10:17
interesting problem to solve like
10:17
interesting problem to solve like falling down to text comparison now in
10:19
falling down to text comparison now in
10:19
falling down to text comparison now in the Json configuration or what pretty
10:22
the Json configuration or what pretty
10:22
the Json configuration or what pretty much and you would have to I'm sure
10:24
much and you would have to I'm sure
10:24
much and you would have to I'm sure there were Tools around these Json files
10:26
there were Tools around these Json files
10:26
there were Tools around these Json files that would you know but make it visible
10:28
that would you know but make it visible
10:28
that would you know but make it visible what was actually okay live in
10:31
what was actually okay live in
10:31
what was actually okay live in production but I'm not sure but all
10:33
production but I'm not sure but all
10:33
production but I'm not sure but all right so here's that's a clear problem
10:35
right so here's that's a clear problem
10:35
right so here's that's a clear problem right so so how do you who who's in
10:37
right so so how do you who who's in
10:37
right so so how do you who who's in charge well I guess the product uh
10:39
charge well I guess the product uh
10:39
charge well I guess the product uh manager and then how do you like keep
10:41
manager and then how do you like keep
10:41
manager and then how do you like keep everything in syn how do you keep
10:43
everything in syn how do you keep
10:43
everything in syn how do you keep everything in sync how do you do that
10:45
everything in sync how do you do that
10:45
everything in sync how do you do that that's the that's that's tricky right um
10:48
that's the that's that's tricky right um
10:48
that's the that's that's tricky right um so so the solution that we come up with
10:50
so so the solution that we come up with
10:50
so so the solution that we come up with and here's the only plug I'll make it's
10:51
and here's the only plug I'll make it's
10:51
and here's the only plug I'll make it's called feature board um is that there is
10:54
called feature board um is that there is
10:54
called feature board um is that there is a we build a platform um which allows
10:58
a we build a platform um which allows
10:58
a we build a platform um which allows you first of all
10:59
you first of all
10:59
you first of all the the code is completely separate from
11:02
the the code is completely separate from
11:02
the the code is completely separate from what we call the portal um so that
11:05
what we call the portal um so that
11:05
what we call the portal um so that developers never ever see anything to do
11:07
developers never ever see anything to do
11:07
developers never ever see anything to do with managemental features they just
11:08
with managemental features they just
11:09
with managemental features they just implemented now they do have to talk to
11:10
implemented now they do have to talk to
11:10
implemented now they do have to talk to each other because you need to
11:12
each other because you need to
11:12
each other because you need to understand what the product owner wants
11:13
understand what the product owner wants
11:14
understand what the product owner wants of course but once the feature is in
11:16
of course but once the feature is in
11:16
of course but once the feature is in there and you've agreed on how it should
11:18
there and you've agreed on how it should
11:18
there and you've agreed on how it should work and what the default value is ETC
11:21
work and what the default value is ETC
11:21
work and what the default value is ETC then that's it it goes It goes out of
11:24
then that's it it goes It goes out of
11:24
then that's it it goes It goes out of the developer hands it's done and what
11:26
the developer hands it's done and what
11:26
the developer hands it's done and what happens is that the platform or the the
11:30
happens is that the platform or the the
11:30
happens is that the platform or the the framework is um taking all of those it's
11:35
framework is um taking all of those it's
11:35
framework is um taking all of those it's it's getting all of the code values
11:37
it's getting all of the code values
11:37
it's getting all of the code values right so here's the problem let me just
11:39
right so here's the problem let me just
11:39
right so here's the problem let me just try and rephrase this okay the developer
11:41
try and rephrase this okay the developer
11:41
try and rephrase this okay the developer say developer puts in feature ABC D yeah
11:44
say developer puts in feature ABC D yeah
11:44
say developer puts in feature ABC D yeah right now they need to be in a a
11:46
right now they need to be in a a
11:46
right now they need to be in a a correspondent management part of that to
11:47
correspondent management part of that to
11:47
correspondent management part of that to say what is ABCD what are they doing are
11:50
say what is ABCD what are they doing are
11:50
say what is ABCD what are they doing are they on and off so the problem that
11:53
they on and off so the problem that
11:53
they on and off so the problem that often happen is that you try and
11:54
often happen is that you try and
11:54
often happen is that you try and reference something that doesn't
11:56
reference something that doesn't
11:56
reference something that doesn't exist but so there's always a default
11:58
exist but so there's always a default
11:58
exist but so there's always a default value so we make sure that there's
12:00
value so we make sure that there's
12:00
value so we make sure that there's defaults for everything so that things
12:01
defaults for everything so that things
12:02
defaults for everything so that things don't blow up that's number one um
12:04
don't blow up that's number one um
12:04
don't blow up that's number one um second part of it is that you then take
12:07
second part of it is that you then take
12:07
second part of it is that you then take um the the the portal and give that to
12:11
um the the the portal and give that to
12:11
um the the the portal and give that to the product manager or the product owner
12:13
the product manager or the product owner
12:13
the product manager or the product owner and they can do everything they want
12:15
and they can do everything they want
12:15
and they can do everything they want they can manage everything that has to
12:17
they can manage everything that has to
12:17
they can manage everything that has to do with these features um and it does
12:20
do with these features um and it does
12:20
do with these features um and it does it's done in in quite an interesting way
12:22
it's done in in quite an interesting way
12:22
it's done in in quite an interesting way um and then once that happens the
12:25
um and then once that happens the
12:25
um and then once that happens the developers are then off the hook
12:28
developers are then off the hook
12:28
developers are then off the hook essentially
12:29
essentially
12:29
essentially mhm
12:31
mhm
12:31
mhm yeah I like I do like again I do like
12:34
yeah I like I do like again I do like
12:34
yeah I like I do like again I do like that separation because you want to have
12:36
that separation because you want to have
12:36
that separation because you want to have developers being focused on uh adding
12:40
developers being focused on uh adding
12:40
developers being focused on uh adding new more business value developing new
12:43
new more business value developing new
12:43
new more business value developing new functions developing like you know new
12:45
functions developing like you know new
12:45
functions developing like you know new features new things uh developer time
12:48
features new things uh developer time
12:48
features new things uh developer time should not be taken to uh deploying
12:51
should not be taken to uh deploying
12:51
should not be taken to uh deploying things in a certain configuration to a
12:53
things in a certain configuration to a
12:53
things in a certain configuration to a certain environment at a certain time
12:55
certain environment at a certain time
12:55
certain environment at a certain time because that's a huge a huge waste of of
12:58
because that's a huge a huge waste of of
12:58
because that's a huge a huge waste of of Developers time huge it is and we don't
13:01
Developers time huge it is and we don't
13:01
Developers time huge it is and we don't want to do it right iite boring yes I
13:03
want to do it right iite boring yes I
13:03
want to do it right iite boring yes I want to write code I don't I don't want
13:05
want to write code I don't I don't want
13:05
want to write code I don't I don't want to especially manual deployment oh gosh
13:08
to especially manual deployment oh gosh
13:08
to especially manual deployment oh gosh no no no no I don't think it's that bad
13:10
no no no no I don't think it's that bad
13:10
no no no no I don't think it's that bad let's let's not I know there's manual
13:13
let's let's not I know there's manual
13:13
let's let's not I know there's manual deployments out there but
13:16
still that no please don't please don't
13:20
still that no please don't please don't
13:20
still that no please don't please don't make sure things are automated um and
13:22
make sure things are automated um and
13:22
make sure things are automated um and then so that sort of solved the first
13:23
then so that sort of solved the first
13:23
then so that sort of solved the first problem which I think is really
13:25
problem which I think is really
13:25
problem which I think is really interesting and we have this and it
13:27
interesting and we have this and it
13:27
interesting and we have this and it doesn't matter if you you know we we're
13:29
doesn't matter if you you know we we're
13:29
doesn't matter if you you know we we're talking on a cloud show and it doesn't
13:30
talking on a cloud show and it doesn't
13:31
talking on a cloud show and it doesn't matter where you have this this is a
13:32
matter where you have this this is a
13:32
matter where you have this this is a sass product and it's hosted in the
13:34
sass product and it's hosted in the
13:34
sass product and it's hosted in the cloud it runs in the cloud so it's
13:36
cloud it runs in the cloud so it's
13:36
cloud it runs in the cloud so it's always up right it's not like we have
13:38
always up right it's not like we have
13:38
always up right it's not like we have servers or anything so we've built this
13:40
servers or anything so we've built this
13:40
servers or anything so we've built this on Azure um and it runs 100% in Azure
13:44
on Azure um and it runs 100% in Azure
13:44
on Azure um and it runs 100% in Azure and you transact it through Azure like
13:45
and you transact it through Azure like
13:45
and you transact it through Azure like everything is azure okay but that
13:48
everything is azure okay but that
13:48
everything is azure okay but that doesn't mean that your code needs to be
13:51
doesn't mean that your code needs to be
13:51
doesn't mean that your code needs to be on Azure I see actually so you could
13:53
on Azure I see actually so you could
13:53
on Azure I see actually so you could choose another another you could have it
13:55
choose another another you could have it
13:55
choose another another you could have it on Prem you could choose you know that
13:57
on Prem you could choose you know that
13:57
on Prem you could choose you know that other Cloud what is it called
13:59
other Cloud what is it called
13:59
other Cloud what is it called I can't
14:01
I can't
14:01
I can't remember um but no it doesn't matter um
14:04
remember um but no it doesn't matter um
14:04
remember um but no it doesn't matter um so so you literally can just use the SDK
14:07
so so you literally can just use the SDK
14:07
so so you literally can just use the SDK wherever you want okay but the
14:09
wherever you want okay but the
14:09
wherever you want okay but the management of the features that the
14:11
management of the features that the
14:11
management of the features that the product owners want is all on aure right
14:13
product owners want is all on aure right
14:13
product owners want is all on aure right so we've built that part of it so so and
14:16
so we've built that part of it so so and
14:16
so we've built that part of it so so and it we just it works really well I'm not
14:18
it we just it works really well I'm not
14:18
it we just it works really well I'm not even saying that's because I work for
14:20
even saying that's because I work for
14:20
even saying that's because I work for it's Works use it internally right we we
14:23
it's Works use it internally right we we
14:23
it's Works use it internally right we we drink I as a solution as such it's
14:25
drink I as a solution as such it's
14:25
drink I as a solution as such it's interesting it's interesting to
14:27
interesting it's interesting to
14:27
interesting it's interesting to understand that separation of these
14:29
understand that separation of these
14:29
understand that separation of these concerns is is a value uh and and before
14:33
concerns is is a value uh and and before
14:33
concerns is is a value uh and and before you'd have something in like that in
14:34
you'd have something in like that in
14:35
you'd have something in like that in your hand what's what's your other
14:36
your hand what's what's your other
14:36
your hand what's what's your other Alterna well that's manual deployment
14:39
Alterna well that's manual deployment
14:39
Alterna well that's manual deployment hell or or rolling out something you
14:42
hell or or rolling out something you
14:42
hell or or rolling out something you know triggering a pipeline somewhere and
14:44
know triggering a pipeline somewhere and
14:44
know triggering a pipeline somewhere and making sure that everything is in that
14:46
making sure that everything is in that
14:46
making sure that everything is in that package and how do I keep track exactly
14:49
package and how do I keep track exactly
14:49
package and how do I keep track exactly right right let's the flip side of that
14:52
right right let's the flip side of that
14:52
right right let's the flip side of that usually let's say something does go
14:54
usually let's say something does go
14:54
usually let's say something does go wrong like for example you have a
14:56
wrong like for example you have a
14:56
wrong like for example you have a feature rolled out it turns out it gives
14:58
feature rolled out it turns out it gives
14:58
feature rolled out it turns out it gives everybody $10 free every time they click
15:00
everybody $10 free every time they click
15:00
everybody $10 free every time they click a button like I don't know what it would
15:01
a button like I don't know what it would
15:01
a button like I don't know what it would be right something horrendous that you
15:03
be right something horrendous that you
15:03
be right something horrendous that you really need to stop normally that would
15:06
really need to stop normally that would
15:06
really need to stop normally that would be a roll back of Code Poss yeah it
15:09
be a roll back of Code Poss yeah it
15:09
be a roll back of Code Poss yeah it might be if you do have a feature like
15:11
might be if you do have a feature like
15:11
might be if you do have a feature like flag implementation you can switch off
15:13
flag implementation you can switch off
15:13
flag implementation you can switch off the feature but you still need to wait
15:15
the feature but you still need to wait
15:15
the feature but you still need to wait for it to propagate interesting yeah
15:18
for it to propagate interesting yeah
15:18
for it to propagate interesting yeah we've literally built it so that you the
15:20
we've literally built it so that you the
15:20
we've literally built it so that you the product owner goes in and clicks the
15:22
product owner goes in and clicks the
15:22
product owner goes in and clicks the button and within like milliseconds it's
15:24
button and within like milliseconds it's
15:24
button and within like milliseconds it's off so it's interesting how so I mean to
15:28
off so it's interesting how so I mean to
15:28
off so it's interesting how so I mean to some extent you can control these things
15:29
some extent you can control these things
15:30
some extent you can control these things using data right like a database that
15:32
using data right like a database that
15:32
using data right like a database that has a you'll be like oh hey I want to
15:35
has a you'll be like oh hey I want to
15:35
has a you'll be like oh hey I want to show this uh this offering that we have
15:37
show this uh this offering that we have
15:37
show this uh this offering that we have on the on the on the portal we have in
15:40
on the on the on the portal we have in
15:40
on the on the on the portal we have in our product whatever it is I'll I'll
15:42
our product whatever it is I'll I'll
15:42
our product whatever it is I'll I'll I'll stick a row in a database and and
15:44
I'll stick a row in a database and and
15:44
I'll stick a row in a database and and it shows up on the screen and if I want
15:45
it shows up on the screen and if I want
15:45
it shows up on the screen and if I want to remove it I can remove it from the
15:48
to remove it I can remove it from the
15:48
to remove it I can remove it from the database uh so technically yeah that can
15:50
database uh so technically yeah that can
15:50
database uh so technically yeah that can mitigate some of this stuff um but um
15:55
mitigate some of this stuff um but um
15:55
mitigate some of this stuff um but um this is this is this is yes it should
15:57
this is this is this is yes it should
15:57
this is this is this is yes it should but this is like you can you can turn
15:59
but this is like you can you can turn
15:59
but this is like you can you can turn off a feature just by saying oh shoot we
16:01
off a feature just by saying oh shoot we
16:01
off a feature just by saying oh shoot we need to remove this thing from the site
16:03
need to remove this thing from the site
16:03
need to remove this thing from the site now um giving the control to the product
16:06
now um giving the control to the product
16:06
now um giving the control to the product owner or or to someone in marketing or
16:08
owner or or to someone in marketing or
16:08
owner or or to someone in marketing or someone who who cares about or the CTO
16:11
someone who who cares about or the CTO
16:11
someone who who cares about or the CTO or whoever might be whoever the person
16:13
or whoever might be whoever the person
16:13
or whoever might be whoever the person that makes the business decision right
16:15
that makes the business decision right
16:15
that makes the business decision right right right right right and that's
16:17
right right right right and that's
16:17
right right right right and that's that's a that's a clear and good value
16:18
that's a that's a clear and good value
16:18
that's a that's a clear and good value of of of a feature toggling do we call
16:21
of of of a feature toggling do we call
16:21
of of of a feature toggling do we call it that feature toggles feature we can't
16:23
it that feature toggles feature we can't
16:24
it that feature toggles feature we can't we we so it comes from feature toggling
16:26
we we so it comes from feature toggling
16:26
we we so it comes from feature toggling we just say feature management because
16:28
we just say feature management because
16:28
we just say feature management because it does a lot more I I'll I'll tell you
16:30
it does a lot more I I'll I'll tell you
16:30
it does a lot more I I'll I'll tell you a little bit more about some of the
16:31
a little bit more about some of the
16:31
a little bit more about some of the benefits that or some of the problems I
16:33
benefits that or some of the problems I
16:33
benefits that or some of the problems I guess that are sometimes with with
16:35
guess that are sometimes with with
16:35
guess that are sometimes with with managing this because um so Jay Ginman
16:37
managing this because um so Jay Ginman
16:37
managing this because um so Jay Ginman who built this product from the
16:39
who built this product from the
16:39
who built this product from the start people may or may not be familiar
16:42
start people may or may not be familiar
16:42
start people may or may not be familiar with him he's a bril brilliant developer
16:44
with him he's a bril brilliant developer
16:44
with him he's a bril brilliant developer absolutely yeah I lean on I lean on him
16:47
absolutely yeah I lean on I lean on him
16:47
absolutely yeah I lean on I lean on him a lot um he was working for a big news
16:50
a lot um he was working for a big news
16:50
a lot um he was working for a big news news site in Australia so News website
16:52
news site in Australia so News website
16:52
news site in Australia so News website right MH and one of the things they had
16:55
right MH and one of the things they had
16:55
right MH and one of the things they had was that they had different tiers for
16:57
was that they had different tiers for
16:57
was that they had different tiers for your membership or your your
16:58
your membership or your your
16:58
your membership or your your subscription
16:59
subscription
16:59
subscription or silver or bronze for example I'm not
17:01
or silver or bronze for example I'm not
17:01
or silver or bronze for example I'm not sure what they were called but usually
17:03
sure what they were called but usually
17:03
sure what they were called but usually what happens is that when you so so
17:05
what happens is that when you so so
17:06
what happens is that when you so so let's do an Azure example right if you
17:08
let's do an Azure example right if you
17:08
let's do an Azure example right if you have say a News website and it's over
17:12
have say a News website and it's over
17:12
have say a News website and it's over certain regions you know more than just
17:14
certain regions you know more than just
17:14
certain regions you know more than just one and you want to have really fast
17:17
one and you want to have really fast
17:17
one and you want to have really fast data available one option could be maybe
17:20
data available one option could be maybe
17:20
data available one option could be maybe using
17:21
using
17:21
using Cosmos right sure Cosmos is a great
17:24
Cosmos right sure Cosmos is a great
17:24
Cosmos right sure Cosmos is a great great great uh service yeah that's right
17:27
great great uh service yeah that's right
17:27
great great uh service yeah that's right what is one of the
17:29
what is one of the
17:29
what is one of the let's say caveats of using Cosmos that
17:33
let's say caveats of using Cosmos that
17:33
let's say caveats of using Cosmos that people always get caught out
17:34
people always get caught out
17:35
people always get caught out by uh you tell me price oh price oh
17:40
by uh you tell me price oh price oh
17:40
by uh you tell me price oh price oh because people don't know how to use
17:41
because people don't know how to use
17:41
because people don't know how to use cosmos A lot of the time they don't
17:43
cosmos A lot of the time they don't
17:43
cosmos A lot of the time they don't understand the Imp implications of using
17:45
understand the Imp implications of using
17:45
understand the Imp implications of using a service that is that available um so
17:48
a service that is that available um so
17:48
a service that is that available um so one of the option one of the problems
17:50
one of the option one of the problems
17:50
one of the option one of the problems that the Jake had with this with the
17:52
that the Jake had with this with the
17:52
that the Jake had with this with the news website was that every single
17:54
news website was that every single
17:54
news website was that every single person that came on the website was
17:56
person that came on the website was
17:56
person that came on the website was logged in became a session as you'd
18:00
logged in became a session as you'd
18:00
logged in became a session as you'd expect now that session was bound to the
18:03
expect now that session was bound to the
18:03
expect now that session was bound to the user okay so every time another user
18:06
user okay so every time another user
18:06
user okay so every time another user came on the website and then reloaded
18:08
came on the website and then reloaded
18:09
came on the website and then reloaded the same page and logged in whatever
18:10
the same page and logged in whatever
18:10
the same page and logged in whatever that was another session and what this
18:12
that was another session and what this
18:12
that was another session and what this meant was that every single request
18:14
meant was that every single request
18:14
meant was that every single request became a database hit ahuh right so the
18:18
became a database hit ahuh right so the
18:18
became a database hit ahuh right so the problem was caching because you couldn't
18:20
problem was caching because you couldn't
18:20
problem was caching because you couldn't really cache any of the well the user
18:22
really cache any of the well the user
18:22
really cache any of the well the user specific values at least and that meant
18:24
specific values at least and that meant
18:25
specific values at least and that meant that you would there was a lot it was
18:26
that you would there was a lot it was
18:26
that you would there was a lot it was slow because you couldn't case things
18:28
slow because you couldn't case things
18:28
slow because you couldn't case things and and um you know you couldn't utilize
18:31
and and um you know you couldn't utilize
18:31
and and um you know you couldn't utilize something like Azure you know red Cas or
18:33
something like Azure you know red Cas or
18:33
something like Azure you know red Cas or whatever you want to use ploud yeah and
18:36
whatever you want to use ploud yeah and
18:36
whatever you want to use ploud yeah and the way to solve this is that we don't
18:38
the way to solve this is that we don't
18:38
the way to solve this is that we don't in feature board we don't talk about
18:40
in feature board we don't talk about
18:40
in feature board we don't talk about users we talk about audiences okay and
18:43
users we talk about audiences okay and
18:43
users we talk about audiences okay and it's one of these very very tiny but
18:47
it's one of these very very tiny but
18:47
it's one of these very very tiny but extremely significant details um in this
18:50
extremely significant details um in this
18:50
extremely significant details um in this product right and it it means that we
18:53
product right and it it means that we
18:53
product right and it it means that we don't really care who you are it's a bit
18:55
don't really care who you are it's a bit
18:55
don't really care who you are it's a bit rude I know but we care about your
18:59
rude I know but we care about your
18:59
rude I know but we care about your right so we about say which membership
19:01
right so we about say which membership
19:01
right so we about say which membership you are or which um is it your birthday
19:04
you are or which um is it your birthday
19:04
you are or which um is it your birthday today or any of those sort of properties
19:07
today or any of those sort of properties
19:07
today or any of those sort of properties of your
19:09
of your
19:09
of your user can let go does that make sense
19:12
user can let go does that make sense
19:12
user can let go does that make sense yeah it does yeah yeah so instead of
19:14
yeah it does yeah yeah so instead of
19:14
yeah it does yeah yeah so instead of being Magnus we say or maybe you're it's
19:16
being Magnus we say or maybe you're it's
19:16
being Magnus we say or maybe you're it's it's you're a male to 50 or something
19:20
it's you're a male to 50 or something
19:20
it's you're a male to 50 or something sorry Swedish yeah right so it becomes a
19:22
sorry Swedish yeah right so it becomes a
19:22
sorry Swedish yeah right so it becomes a more of an audience definition rather
19:24
more of an audience definition rather
19:24
more of an audience definition rather than a user definition I see um and then
19:27
than a user definition I see um and then
19:27
than a user definition I see um and then we took it one step further and the
19:29
we took it one step further and the
19:29
we took it one step further and the audience is you don't actually have to
19:30
audience is you don't actually have to
19:30
audience is you don't actually have to be a user the audience could also be
19:32
be a user the audience could also be
19:32
be a user the audience could also be something that's happening a good
19:34
something that's happening a good
19:34
something that's happening a good example is always if you have tried to
19:37
example is always if you have tried to
19:37
example is always if you have tried to play a Star Wars Song in Spotify have
19:39
play a Star Wars Song in Spotify have
19:39
play a Star Wars Song in Spotify have you ever done that I have yeah and the
19:43
you ever done that I have yeah and the
19:43
you ever done that I have yeah and the progress bar turns into a lightsaber
19:46
progress bar turns into a lightsaber
19:46
progress bar turns into a lightsaber that's cool yeah it works sometimes
19:48
that's cool yeah it works sometimes
19:48
that's cool yeah it works sometimes right and that is a nice little Easter
19:50
right and that is a nice little Easter
19:50
right and that is a nice little Easter egg so that could also be an audience
19:53
egg so that could also be an audience
19:53
egg so that could also be an audience who is listening to Star Wars songs so
19:55
who is listening to Star Wars songs so
19:55
who is listening to Star Wars songs so it doesn't have to be anything that is
19:56
it doesn't have to be anything that is
19:56
it doesn't have to be anything that is like male or you know level subscription
20:00
like male or you know level subscription
20:00
like male or you know level subscription level whatever it can be almost anything
20:02
level whatever it can be almost anything
20:02
level whatever it can be almost anything but I guess what that means I guess
20:03
but I guess what that means I guess
20:03
but I guess what that means I guess default is listening to Star Wars that's
20:05
default is listening to Star Wars that's
20:05
default is listening to Star Wars that's going to be your default obviously
20:07
going to be your default obviously
20:07
going to be your default obviously obviously yeah yeah then and then number
20:10
obviously yeah yeah then and then number
20:10
obviously yeah yeah then and then number two are you Swedish or not oh yeah yeah
20:13
two are you Swedish or not oh yeah yeah
20:13
two are you Swedish or not oh yeah yeah that's
20:15
that's
20:15
that's important but it's it's just it's just a
20:17
important but it's it's just it's just a
20:17
important but it's it's just it's just a really
20:19
really
20:19
really really different way of um having these
20:23
really different way of um having these
20:23
really different way of um having these users come through and that means that
20:25
users come through and that means that
20:25
users come through and that means that you can cage everything yeah yeah so
20:27
you can cage everything yeah yeah so
20:27
you can cage everything yeah yeah so suddenly you're
20:29
suddenly you're
20:29
suddenly you're mean is much much more effective Mak
20:32
mean is much much more effective Mak
20:32
mean is much much more effective Mak sense although don't ask me to configure
20:34
sense although don't ask me to configure
20:34
sense although don't ask me to configure it because it's one of the two most
20:37
it because it's one of the two most
20:37
it because it's one of the two most difficult things in it all right all
20:39
difficult things in it all right all
20:39
difficult things in it all right all right all right cool so uh but listen
20:42
right all right cool so uh but listen
20:42
right all right cool so uh but listen anyway um I think we're going to have to
20:44
anyway um I think we're going to have to
20:44
anyway um I think we're going to have to round this off because this is such a f
20:48
round this off because this is such a f
20:48
round this off because this is such a f we can we can keep talking about this
20:50
we can we can keep talking about this
20:50
we can we can keep talking about this for ages but uh we we just don't want to
20:52
for ages but uh we we just don't want to
20:53
for ages but uh we we just don't want to be uh bothering our listeners with with
20:55
be uh bothering our listeners with with
20:55
be uh bothering our listeners with with a detailed description of technology I
20:57
a detailed description of technology I
20:57
a detailed description of technology I love that but I I what I do like is a
20:59
love that but I I what I do like is a
20:59
love that but I I what I do like is a takeaway from me is that we want to
21:01
takeaway from me is that we want to
21:01
takeaway from me is that we want to separate developers from U developing
21:04
separate developers from U developing
21:04
separate developers from U developing features and and and and separate them
21:06
features and and and and separate them
21:06
features and and and and separate them from from the U you know the use of
21:09
from from the U you know the use of
21:09
from from the U you know the use of these features when do they go
21:11
these features when do they go
21:11
these features when do they go live SE code and product ownership like
21:15
live SE code and product ownership like
21:15
live SE code and product ownership like two different things that's Proby
21:16
two different things that's Proby
21:16
two different things that's Proby brilliant I love it I love it Loris and
21:18
brilliant I love it I love it Loris and
21:18
brilliant I love it I love it Loris and I I want to thank you for being on the
21:19
I I want to thank you for being on the
21:19
I I want to thank you for being on the cloud show today to talk about a feature
21:22
cloud show today to talk about a feature
21:22
cloud show today to talk about a feature management thing all right it was
21:24
management thing all right it was
21:24
management thing all right it was brilliant to have you and audience we'll
21:27
brilliant to have you and audience we'll
21:27
brilliant to have you and audience we'll see you guys next time on the cloud show
21:31
see you guys next time on the cloud show
21:31
see you guys next time on the cloud show thank you byebye thanks Magnus bye
21:34
thank you byebye thanks Magnus bye
21:34
thank you byebye thanks Magnus bye [Music]
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