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Video: SHUCKED Writer Robert Horn Reflects on His Serendipitous Life in the Theatre
May 17, 2024
Tonight, Tony-winning book writer Robert Horn gets to add another title to his resume. His latest show, Shucked, is just hours away from officially opening at the Nederlander Theatre. In this video, Richard catches up with Robert at the Rosevale Cocktail Room at CIVILIAN to discuss some of his career highlights.
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0:00
Welcome to Backstage with Richard Ridge
0:02
My guest is a renowned, award-winning playwright, screenwriter, and producer. He is best known on the stage
0:08
for his Tony Award winning book for the Broadway musical Tootsie and from 13 the Musical
0:13
He's about to return to Broadway as the book writer for the hilarious new musical, Shocked
0:18
which will open on April 4th at the Nederlander Theater. He's also the co-book writer
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for Disney's new musical, Hercules. And I caught up with him here
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at Rosevale Cocktail Room at Civilian. Please say hello to Robert Horn. ♪��
0:38
Okay, so you work on film, TV, and stage. So I want to talk about a few of the highlights
0:43
Just tell me what comes to mind, a story or a fun memory. Okay. You mentioned Tootsie. Yes
0:48
Brilliant book. I adored Tootsie. Thank you. I thought it was so sensational. Thank you
0:52
I mean, you won the Tony Award for best book. Okay. When they read your name that night, I mean, you and I talked about this
0:57
but you know, when you dream of working in the theater, we all watch Tony Awards growing up or whatever
1:01
When they called your name that night and you walked up on stage, what do you remember about the night
1:05
you won the Tony Award for best book? Well, excuse me. Well, one thing I remember is that they tell you
1:11
you have 90 seconds from the time your name is announced to the time you get off. And I'm like, okay, I got to just do this
1:16
I got to do this. And I knew I had like three good jokes
1:20
And I said to myself, and I said, look, jokes is jobs. If I can be funny, I'll get another gig after this
1:26
It was a, you know, it's, I am never naive to the knowledge
1:36
that the line to get into the door for this industry is so long
1:41
And there, but for the grace of goddess, I somehow managed to get in that door
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And I, and it's every moment is a bucket list moment because so many people who are more talented than I am
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just never, you know, success is always a meeting of, it's a serendipitous meeting of opportunity and ability
2:00
And if you're lucky, those things meet and you get your chance. And I got lucky
2:04
I worked really hard, but I got lucky. And so it all is amazing to me, but since I'm a little kid
2:11
the dream was to win a Tony Award. I mean, it's all I ever wanted more than anything else
2:16
And you don't actually think it's going to happen because it's one award a year
2:21
And there's been what, 70, what is the 70th or 75th anniversary
2:26
So in the history of Broadway, 75 people have won. So what are the chances
2:33
And so when it happened, it's shocking. And I'll tell you one more thing
2:38
because I'm behind the camera, you know, behind the table. I did, they're literally
2:43
I understand why people want to be actors now because you get up by there and you make a joke
2:48
and the audience laughs. And the energy you get from an audience
2:52
it hits you in the gut. I never, I'm like, oh, that's why they like doing this
2:57
You can feel the energy. It was overwhelming. It was a little scary and shocking
3:01
and it just goes by so fast, but yeah. And I didn't kiss my husband and I'm
3:06
I forgot to do that. You have to do that at home though. But I do that at home. You only had 90 seconds
3:10
I had 90 seconds and we kissed longer than that, but yeah. So I want to talk about what made Tootsie so special for you
3:16
Like I said, it was a glorious time. The book was amazing. Everything about it was, the performances, everything
3:21
What made that show so special for you? The people involved in it, without a doubt
3:24
It was, the cast was beyond wonderful. Scott Ellis, who the director is just one of the most
3:33
talented, beautiful men on the planet. And he created an atmosphere of pure joy
3:39
Every day was joy. Yazbek and I, well, we actually would get kicked
3:43
out of the room because we laughed. We just were laughing all the time
3:48
It's the, like Shocked in some ways, that sense of community that was formed between us
3:53
and between everybody involved was my memory of that show. Because I remember the three of you sat with me
4:00
the week before you won. I remember. I remember the couch. I remember the couch we sat on
4:05
It was you, Yazbek and Scott Ellis. And you passed these mics back and forth
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And I said, boy, this is what a collaboration. I mean, you three should have gone on the road
4:15
It really was a clown car, the three of us. We had the best time
4:21
And that was a joyous experience for me. Okay, 13, the musical. Yes
4:28
I remember it being with all of you opening night. It was in that really dark room
4:32
Do you remember opening night? It was at a club. There were no lights on in there
4:36
It was like a black lacquered little room. And we were all doing interviews that night
4:40
I don't remember that. I remember that very vividly. But I remember, because that was one of the first times
4:44
I spoke to you was during 13. Yeah, you mean, was it at a restaurant or was it
4:48
I don't know, some club or something. We were all in this dark room. Oh my God. There were no lights on in the room
4:53
except for the lights on the counter. That was an omen, I guess. No, no, no. But let's talk about 13, the musical
4:57
That's when you and I first spoke for the first time. That was 2008
5:01
Another joyous musical. You got to create this with Jason Robert Brown. I did, yes
5:05
I mean, look what's happened to him, too. Who? Who, exactly. So what made that so special for you, working on 13
5:10
Well, it was really my first Broadway musical. I had done a couple of things before that
5:15
but it was my first. What made that special for me was the kids
5:24
I don't have kids. I never really wanted to have kids. If you've ever flown with kids around you
5:30
you're like, I don't need that in my life. But collaborating with these kids
5:35
and literally writing the show for them was an incredible experience. And then the brotherhood that I formed with Jason
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Jason and I became very, very close on that musical. And to this day, he and I are brothers
5:51
Working with Jason, I learned so much by working with him. I mean, I really learned
5:55
That experience was about learning, learning this craft, learning how to do this
5:59
really being in the mosh pit of that. And that's my big takeaway from that
6:05
Well, I'm actually very proud of that show. It didn't have a long run
6:09
Obviously what happened is in 2008, that housing crisis hit and we closed on a Sunday
6:14
where 12 other shows closed. Plus we were a show with all teenage kids
6:20
and a teenage band and people were like, well, at that time, we're like, I'm gonna spend $175 to see a bunch of teenagers on stage
6:27
It just, it didn't find its home. I think that way it might now
6:32
Spring Awakening then came and sort of did a version, did their version of youth on stage and it really worked
6:40
I think we were, there were a lot of things, but I'm so proud of that show
6:44
And to this day, it does so well in licensing because it's one of those shows
6:49
it's not like kids in a high school or doing fiddler on the roof and putting baby powder in their hair and saying
6:54
oh, I'm an old Jew. It literally is the experience of growing up
6:59
and coming of age and what that means and finding your tribe and I'm really proud of the work we did
7:05
We never really got to finish it, but I'm really proud of it
7:08
Well, you know, those of us who did go to 13 and the people who bought tickets got to see
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these young kids who have now gone on, Ariana Grande. Ariana Grande, Liz Gillis, Graham Phillips
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Eamon Foley, Allie Trim. So many of them have gone on and have these incredible careers
7:27
So those people did buy tickets, yeah, and you found them. I remember every one of those auditions
7:33
Ariana and Aaron Simon-Gross were from Boca Raton, Florida, came in and auditioned together for this show as best friends
7:41
They came in, both got cast in the show and both have gone on now and had these incredible careers
7:47
Aaron is a really successful director and playwright and Ariana is... Is Ariana
7:53
She's doing Wicked. Wicked, the film. You got to revisit it for the film
7:57
We did. Which was really sensational. So what was it like being back in the room
8:01
with Jason all over again and introducing it to a whole new generation
8:04
which fell in love with it? Yeah, you know, it was a very challenging experience
8:11
As many people know, television is a very different art form and you have to approach it very differently
8:17
So it was great. I mean, it was really difficult because we shot it in the midst, in the heart of COVID
8:24
So imagine trying to rehearse a musical, literally at that point, they were still wearing masks and shields
8:30
and that you couldn't take them off. So it was a really challenging experience
8:34
We were sequestered. I was, me, myself, Jason, his wife, Georgia and the kids
8:41
were all sort of locked away together. But it was also wonderful because we got to spend four
8:45
Jason and I got to spend four months in Toronto together, locked away, rewriting the show
8:51
You know, it was an interesting thing to revisit your work, that work especially, some 10, 13 years later
9:00
because the world has changed so much. Being, coming of age, being 13 changed
9:06
What that meant back in 2008 to now is mind blowing of how the world has changed
9:13
Social media has changed. And so it was a very interesting way to look
9:19
to re-examine that piece through the lens of how the world has progressed
9:27
and how tweens have progressed. But you made art during COVID, which I think is great
9:33
We did. It was a chapter for your book. Oh my God, yes. But you did, you all made this incredible piece
9:37
It was hard, it was challenging. But then you watch it and you're like, no one sees the backstory
9:41
Nobody sees the backstory. And it was so entertaining and something we needed. Jamal Sims, who did the choreography
9:46
did an incredible job and it was really fun and it was fun
9:50
Okay, you're talking about television. Yes. Your first big job designing women
9:54
Well, my first big job was designing women, yes. Okay, so here you are producer
9:59
what you had everything, writer, showrunner, everything, right? Yes. To like, from the beginning
10:04
Well, that's a very interesting story, which I won't go into too many details
10:08
because there's some roadkill. But I actually started off as a staff writer on that show
10:15
And then within six months became showrunner. And through a whole series of events
10:21
which I'll put in my book, and there's a wonderful director and a stand-up comedian named David Steinberg
10:30
I don't know if you have from many. Sure. And he was directing the show and things happened
10:34
and all of a sudden I was elevated to run the show. And he said to me, I'm going to teach you
10:40
I'm gonna teach you how to cast. I'm gonna teach you how to edit. I'm gonna teach you how to run a room
10:43
I'm going to teach you to be a showrunner. And he taught me how to be a showrunner
10:48
And I'm so grateful to him. He's a mentor and he's brilliant
10:53
And so I wrote the, I basically did the last two years of that
10:58
two and a half years of that show, yeah. But he somewhat opened the door again for you
11:02
Somebody, I stand on so many shoulders. I mean, the legendary producer, Bob Boyette
11:09
I had done a show on CBS called High Society, which was sort of an American version
11:17
of Absolutely Fabulous. If you don't know AbFab, you should watch it because it's brilliant
11:22
And I sort of did an American, my take, I was inspired by it
11:27
And at that time I was at Warner Brothers and had a deal with Warner Brothers
11:32
and Bob Boyette was at that time Miller Boyette. For those of you who don't know
11:35
Miller Boyette are iconic producers. Everything from Happy Days and Laverne and Shirley
11:43
and Mork and Mindy and Full House and Family Matters. They coined the phrase TGIF
11:49
And so the head at one of the executives at Warner Brothers said
11:54
I was doing very adult nine o'clock shows. Bob was doing these eight o'clock family shows
11:59
Bob and Tom, and they teamed us up to see what we would come up with. And we did a pilot together
12:03
which ended up not going forward, but I became very, very close with Bob
12:08
And he gave up on television. The world started to change. Survivor came on and all of a sudden
12:15
you couldn't sell a comedy. And he came to New York and said
12:20
I'm going to produce Broadway. And what, 15 Tony awards later, he is a legend
12:24
And he said, we used to talk about theater when we were working on our pilots
12:28
And he called and said, I want you to help me with something. And he called me in to help him with a show
12:33
And he gave me then he gave me Lone Star Love, which was that crazy Randy Quaid story
12:40
And then he was the producer of 13 and said, I want you to do the show
12:45
And so he literally put me on the map, him and Thomas Schumacher
12:50
who I was doing an animated feature for Disney when Tom Schumacher and Peter Schneider
12:56
were running Disney animation. And Tom said, I have a show that's coming to Broadway
13:01
and I need 10 laughs. Can you help me? And I did, and he stayed loyal to me
13:07
and kept saying, you know, working with teaching me and mentoring me. And so there are people who
13:13
and I try to do that now to the next generation and teach them and mentor them
13:18
and give them opportunities because these stories have to be passed on
13:22
and these lessons have to be passed on. Well, speaking of Disney, you are the co-book writer of Hercules
13:29
Sensational with Kwame. Kwame Krama, who is brother from another mother. If you don't know Kwame, he's a brilliant
13:36
he runs the Young Vic. He's artistic director of the Young Vic in London
13:41
He just directed the collaboration. And shot the movie, directed the movie
13:46
He's an actor and a writer and a director. And one of the funniest
13:52
most brilliant men I've ever worked with. It was an incredible collaboration
13:58
I just love that man so much, but I dare anybody not to
14:03
Most special part of working on Hercules with him. Working with him, just working with him
14:09
We're very different. What we do is very different. And so, I'll be honest
14:13
What happened was, we had done four or five drafts of the script
14:19
and everybody was very happy with it. And then COVID happened. And then the world started to change
14:24
Black Lives Matter happened. And the Me Too movement happened. Everything happened. And because Hercules had a predominantly
14:31
African-American cast, and it was a very different experience. And it was very much about the mentorship
14:36
between a young African-American man. And I felt that it's not my story to tell
14:44
I could make it funny and I can structure it. There was so much I can do
14:49
But there's an authenticity to that experience of what that means that I could not bring
14:55
And I had a conversation with Tom and with Ben Famiglietti from Disney
15:00
And I said, I think you need to team me up with somebody to do this
15:03
because it's not fair to the piece for me to try to write something that is not my story
15:09
And Leo de Bessonet, who was director, knew Kwame and said, I want you to meet this guy
15:15
And we met and just fell in love, fell in love. He's six foot five
15:21
He's like this powerful, dominating figure. I'm this little sort of this twerpy little five foot five guy
15:28
and we walked down the street holding hands. And my husband and his wife say
15:33
uh oh, I'm worried. We are so in love with each other
15:36
It was a perfect collaboration. Like I said, I was out there to see it two weeks ago. It was beautiful
15:41
I mean, the combination of the two of you and it's seamless, the book. Yeah, that man, he sprinkles gold dust
15:46
on everything he does. I just, I adore him. Okay, so I wanted to ask you
15:51
was your Broadway debut working with Dame Edna? It was. Back with a Vengeance
15:55
Yes, Back with a Vengeance. Were you brought in to write jokes? Like what was- I was brought in to work with Barry Humphries
16:01
on sort of updating and yes. So just to, let's see, what can I say
16:10
I was brought in to, yes, to work, to collaborate with him on making sure
16:15
that the show, he had done a show, I think two or three years earlier
16:20
one at Tony Fork and then to make sure that the new show had a new sense
16:24
there was new life to breathe into it. And so I got to work with Barry Humphries on that, yes
16:32
What was that experience like? That was, wonderful. He's a genius, he's a genius
16:41
But I will say it was a little challenging because the man has been doing that character
16:46
for 40 years and to suddenly say, hey, there's a writer that's going to come in and work with you, I think he, rightfully so
16:53
I think he was a little resistant at first, but he was also open to hearing what I had to say
16:58
And ultimately it was a beautiful, wonderful collaboration. And he was fantastic
17:02
It's very interesting, because he will not do the character out of character
17:06
He will not be Edna if he's not as Edna. So it's a very interesting
17:11
you're writing it with Barry Humphries and then Edna's doing it. It was crazy
17:15
It was, listen, it was a wild experience. Another chapter for the book
17:20
Another chapter for the book. And then from there was Lone Star Love after that
17:26
Two in a row. Two in a row. No, but usually, because I remember interviewing
17:30
Do you know that story? Tell us, yeah, because that was- Oh, I can't tell you, but I will say this
17:34
What can you say about it? It was a challenging time. I will say this, you can Google it
17:42
Vanity Fair did a piece on it. There's a lot. It was an interesting time
17:48
I have signed papers that I can't speak on it, but it was, there were wonderful things about it too
17:59
But it's just one of those shows, biz stories, where when something starts to go wrong
18:04
it goes really wrong. But so a lot of creators, I mean, you've been working in this business
18:08
for quite some time. Yeah. And there's always, you know, things that happen
18:12
things that don't happen, things that should happen, you know, so it just, it's just part of your journey
18:16
One of those, it was one of those stories that has become theater lore. Yeah
18:22
And I love that. I love that it has. I love that to be a part of that story
18:26
No, because going back to Day Med for a second, I remember interviewing Dame Edna and I couldn't, we could never talk to Edna as Barry
18:32
or whatever. There is no Barry Humphries when she's Dame Edna. It's like, I picked up on it quickly
18:37
but early on I watched some people, I was like, wait a minute, you're just talking to Dame Edna, remember that
18:42
He's brilliant. Oh yeah. And he's so quick on his heels. I mean, he's just truly, he's masterful at it
18:52
So you can't really say, hey, I'm going to write you something. The show changes every night
18:57
but he does have those sort of moments that he knows he's going to go back to how to get the show where it, you know, as a through line
19:05
But he is amazing. Again, I learned, I've been very lucky. I learned so much from him about improvisational comedy
19:12
about characterization. It's amazing. He's amazing. Brilliant man. Because you wouldn't be who you are today
19:18
if you didn't go through all of this. All of that. You know, all of that. Of what you learned from all these people
19:23
Every one of those experiences had iconic moments that have shaped my work and who I am within the industry
19:33
And I wouldn't have trade any of them. Some of them challenging, most of them wonderful
19:38
I would not trade any of them. Yeah. I want to get back to designing women just for a second
19:42
We felt madly in love with it. People love that show. We're obsessed with that. I mean, we're obsessed with those women
19:47
I loved writing that show. I loved writing that show. Did you love working with the ladies
19:50
Loved them. The women? Sadly, a few of them have passed. Yeah
19:55
It was an incredible experience. And they were so supportive of, at that time I had a writing partner named Danny Margosas
20:04
who was a wonderful writer. And we really just worked with them to write the show
20:09
They, we, you know, by the time we had gotten there, I think the show had sort of lost a little of its luster
20:16
And it's sort of a, and we were young, out gay guys who were like, oh girl, we know this show
20:24
And the women just embraced us and loved us. And we actually, it was so much fun and crazy
20:32
They were doing what, three, four day work weeks. And so we were churning them out
20:37
It was crazy. And listen, I think one of the most, something that I'm so proud of is I got to write
20:43
the very last episode. It's a two-part episode. It was a spoof on Gone With The Wind
20:50
And I got to write the very last Designing With Women two-part episode
20:54
I love that. Yeah. You work in every medium. But sometimes medium rare, but yes
21:00
But it's medium. Yes, it is medium. But you always come back to the theater
21:04
Yeah, it's my soul. Tell me, yeah. Well, you know, I grew up in New York
21:08
This is my home. Theater was always what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a playwright
21:13
Could not get a job. Nobody gave a damn about me. And ended up, you know, this was the late 1980s
21:24
It was a very dark time in New York. We had the AIDS crisis that hit
21:30
We were losing some of the most creative people. The city had gone into a depression
21:34
I just found it very hard to survive here. So I went out to LA just to take a break
21:39
and ended up in television. That I never, with this career, I never expected
21:45
But always longed to come back to theater. And then it took me having success in television
21:50
to be able to come back and do it. But theater is where my heart is
21:53
It is my, I always say, you go out, you do a pilot, you pay your rent, and then you come to do theater
22:00
to nurture your soul. I just love this business. But things take a long time in theater
22:04
You know, in TV, you do a pilot, either it gets picked up or it doesn't. It all happens rather quickly
22:10
Theater takes a long time. It's an incredibly collaborative art form. And when something is that collaborative
22:16
you're dealing with a lot of schedules. The stakes are very high
22:20
Takes a long time to write a show and to get it right. And so it's a very different art form
22:25
But man, you know, you're the same way I am. It is your, it's in your, it's your heartbeat
22:31
You love it, you either have the stomach for it or you don't, yes
22:36
So finally, I mean, Schott is getting ready to open on April 4th. Correct
22:40
You were bringing so much joy already because I walked down that street and I watched the doors open to the Nederlanda Theater
22:45
I watched people come out. Down the block, it's crazy. I watched people with smiles on their face
22:49
I mean, what it means to you when you watch how much joy this show
22:52
is bringing to audiences already and you haven't even opened yet, what that means to you
22:56
It means everything. Well, it means so many things. It means that you've done your job
23:02
There's a satisfaction to it. But, and I say this, and again, it sounds cliche or as we say, it sounds corny
23:08
but it's true that when you, when you have people sitting in a room
23:12
1,100 people sitting in a room from different walks of life, some of them have had a really bad day
23:18
Some of them, you know, whatever that is, they come in and they let it all go
23:23
and laugh together as a community and are just a little better off
23:27
leaving than when they came. That's what we do. That's art. I always say, when you look back
23:34
at any time in history, if you wanna know what happened, look at the art
23:40
The art will tell you everything. And I think it's a very interesting time coming out of COVID
23:45
which we're still really not out of in so many ways, especially in this industry
23:50
that to have a show that is, I don't wanna say changing people's lives
23:57
but enhancing their lives, that they walk out feeling better than when they walked in
24:02
and are telling their friends, you should go see this. It's really fun
24:06
And they do, and people come. It's really satisfying. It's really satisfying
24:11
We don't know what'll happen. Opening night will happen. It may escalate
24:15
It may, who knows? It's a crazy business. It is a true farce and silly comedy
24:23
Whether there's an appetite for that with the intellectual elite, we'll find out
24:27
But I gotta tell you, people from many, many different avenues are coming in
24:32
and having that, the same feeling of, it's really far funny, it's really smart
24:37
and it's really joyful. It's a joyful show. I cannot wait. If I don't see you beforehand
24:42
I will see you on April 4th. I have a feeling I will because I see you now everywhere
24:46
Robert, always a pleasure, my friend. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much. And welcome back to Broadway. Thank you
24:51
I don't wanna leave. I don't wanna leave. You're not going anywhere. What
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